Talk:Russo-Ukrainian War
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Paragraph about the Ukrainian attack into Russia's Kursk region
[edit]A paragraph about the Ukrainian attack into Russia's Kursk region is necessary. JacktheBrown (talk) 11:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, care to write it? Slatersteven (talk) 11:18, 17 August 2024 (UTC)
The whole story, not just a part
[edit]I believe that if it's correct to include the sentence "Russia has carried out attacks on civilians far from the frontline", it's also correct to include "Ukraine has committed attacks on civilians into Russia's Kursk region", or a similar phrase; see, for example, [1] and [2]. JacktheBrown (talk) 14:58, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- First off, MAybe, but Russia carried them out first (as Ukraine had not invaded Russia), and so that should be the Order, Ukraine than Russia. Rather than implying it is the other way around. Second, we have many RS saying (directly) Russia is attacking civilians, you only have provided sources that say Russia has accused Ukraine of attacking civilians (and one of them does not say Civilians have been targeted, only evacuated), thus this 100% needs to be attributed as a Russian claim only. Slatersteven (talk) 15:04, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Fourth (As I did not pick up on this) this is the wp:lede as such putting even attributed claims in there is dubious unless they make up some degree of the article. Fifth, as far as I know no charges have been brought (led alone successfully prosecuted) at the ICC over accusations of Ukriaian war crimes against civilians. Slatersteven (talk) 15:12, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- The first source makes no claims of Ukrainian attacks on civilians and the second is saying russia is accusing Ukraine of attacks on civilians, it is not saying that Ukraine attacked civilians—blindlynx 15:58, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:DUE applies, I suggest you read this carefully before you continue to edit war. TylerBurden (talk) 19:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- @TylerBurden: since I started this conversation, the """edit war""" is over. JacktheBrown (talk) 19:23, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Great, you can also stop pinging me constantly, this article is now on my watchlist so it's completely unnecessary. TylerBurden (talk) 19:27, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- You didn't warn me that I can't ping you, so I'm absolutely not wrong. Please stop blaming me. JacktheBrown (talk) 19:30, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Great, you can also stop pinging me constantly, this article is now on my watchlist so it's completely unnecessary. TylerBurden (talk) 19:27, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- @TylerBurden: since I started this conversation, the """edit war""" is over. JacktheBrown (talk) 19:23, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- First, it's important to distinguish between intentional attacks and collateral damage. Collateral damage occurs when civilians unintentionally die as a result of a military attack targeting a legitimate military objective, such as a command post. This is a regrettable but often unavoidable consequence of warfare. According to international law, while collateral damage is not illegal per se, the principles of distinction, proportionality, and necessity must be adhered to in order to minimize civilian harm. Investigations by the UN, ICC, and other independent bodies are ongoing to assess these incidents. So far, there is no evidence that Ukraine has intentionally targeted civilians in Russia or in any other location.
- Russia's actions in Ukraine have been widely criticized for their brutality. The Kremlin has engaged in extensive propaganda efforts to distort the reality of the conflict, suppress independent journalism, and spread disinformation globally. These tactics have contributed to a narrative that obscures Russia's role in committing widespread violence, including what many consider to be acts of genocide against Ukrainians and indigenous Crimean Tatars. AlasdarVan (talk) 05:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AlasdarVan: all states on the planet distort reality in their favour. Having said that, I'm leaving this discussion. JacktheBrown (talk) 11:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- no i think what you rather should do is write pages on North Korea, citing North Korean news. Good luck AlasdarVan (talk) 18:52, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't understand how that overrides out sourcing standards or policies about due weight—blindlynx 22:17, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- @AlasdarVan: all states on the planet distort reality in their favour. Having said that, I'm leaving this discussion. JacktheBrown (talk) 11:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
Subjective terms
[edit][3]. @TylerBurden: no, in an encyclopedia it's not correct to include subjective terms such as "many", "deliberate" and "indiscriminate"; I'm aware that there's currently no peace between the United States and Russia, but for an encyclopedia it's not appropriate to include subjective terms. JacktheBrown (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- Go ahead and provide the policy where such terms are banned from Wikipedia. TylerBurden (talk) 19:04, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've modified the wording from 'many' to 'repeatedly'. That shouldn't be controversial as 'many' is a WTW with regards vagueness, whilst 'repeatedly' simply indicates that an event has occurred more than once. It's more formal in tone. The other two words, 'deliberate and 'indiscriminate', are used by various reputable sources. The OHCHR source, which is the most authoritative source cited, uses 'indiscriminate' twice in text. Once in discussing Russia's attacks in Chernihiv, and once in acknowledging allegations against Ukraine in the Donetsk region. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:43, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
- 'deliberate' is used by the bbc source—blindlynx 13:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
- I've modified the wording from 'many' to 'repeatedly'. That shouldn't be controversial as 'many' is a WTW with regards vagueness, whilst 'repeatedly' simply indicates that an event has occurred more than once. It's more formal in tone. The other two words, 'deliberate and 'indiscriminate', are used by various reputable sources. The OHCHR source, which is the most authoritative source cited, uses 'indiscriminate' twice in text. Once in discussing Russia's attacks in Chernihiv, and once in acknowledging allegations against Ukraine in the Donetsk region. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:43, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 September 2024
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Hi, there should be an X next to Yevgeny Prigozhin under the Commanders and Leaders section linking to this page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Wagner_Group_plane_crash 23.175.112.147 (talk) 02:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. TylerBurden (talk) 18:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
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