Talk:582nd Helicopter Group

Initial setup

I believe we may be being inconsistent here. The current station, lineage, and equipment (Hueys, 582 HG and FE Warren) have been added, but my addition of AFGSC as the higher command has been deleted. Also the separation of the squadrons by time period, which jumbles everything together. There is no location list of current squadrons (or association with Missile Wings), which makes it hard to assess the group at a glance. I'd really like to work collaboratively with you on this Lineagegeek; could you explain further? Cheers and very many thanks for setting this one up. Buckshot06 (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of Global Strike Command was the result of a bad resolution of an edit conflict. Station additions are part of the reason for the under construction tag. Not only most of the current squadrons, but most of the 1952-1958 squadrons were not located with group headquarters. And the group was established in 1943, it was just renamed and reactivated in 2015.

To dos.

Expand the WW II narrative.

In post war add reassignment to ARS background, expansion to group, flights and locations. If I can find anything, unit transfers to 3d Air Rescue Group when unit moved to Clark and same on move to Wheeler.

 Done

Locations of remote squadrons.

 Done

Discussion of former missile wing ops groups current squadrons were assigned to and possible additional rationale for formation of the group

 Done

I see you've already started mention of the 20th Air Force (or is it Twentieth?) Heli Gp. That was on the list of to dos.

Some clean up of citations. One problem is that the official AFHRA Lineage & Honors statement for the unit has errors in it with regard to assignment, so the usual cite to one source won't be possible (there are actually two undated, but prepared at different times -- I've only got one, but have corresponded with someone who has. They do not agree on 1947-1949 assignments, but both repeat the same error of assigning the squadron to an inactive hq in 1948-1949). That's why I inserted a cite to the 32d group factsheet. Unfortunately, neither the 301st Fighter Wing not the archived 316th Air Division factsheets mention the 2d's assignment or attachment to them. --Lineagegeek (talk) 14:35, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Again, like to stress I'd really like to work collaboratively with you on this one LG. But the list of units, at present, does not make it clear at all, which units were active at each point in the group's history. Right now it's thoroughly confused. But I understand that according to the USAF lineage listings, you wouldn't repeat squadron listings. But this is not a USAF site. How should we do this? Should we repeat in the text a significant amount of the squadron listings?

The years assigned appear after each squadron listing and should make this clear, particularly as the appropriate narrative in the history is expanded. I think numerical listing makes it easiest to find a unit on a list and detailed information should be located in the narrative. Very few USAF articles have unit assignments broken down chronologically. However, since I'm about to add a unit, twelve subordinate units may be enough to justify this clarification. --Lineagegeek (talk) 14:25, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

 Done

Second. I understand the lineage arrangements - the squadron that was the group's predecessor formed in 1943 - but 582 HG, at present, appears in Category:Military units and formations established in 1943, which is incorrect. 2 ERS formed in 1943. The designation 582 HG did not appear before 2014-15 (and where in god's green earth did they get the number 582, of all things?) I'm about to activate the remainder of the redirects required, and then I will return to the subject. Buckshot06 (talk) 21:21, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

The 2d wasn't just a "predecessor", it is the same unit. Changing the number of a USAF unit doesn't create a new establishment date. For example, the 50th Education Squadron has held not only that number, but has been the 5th Reconnaissance Squadron and the 431st Bombardment Squadron as well as a number of other names with the number 50, so there was no establishment in 1942 or 1946. --Lineagegeek (talk) 14:25, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

First, thanks for separating the units by era. We aren't AFHRA, we're writing for a general audience, and I believe what you've just done should be rolled out more widely.

Secondly, do you have any idea where they got 582 from?

Thirdly, we have a total difference of opinion regarding where in the categories to place these units. Suggest we both behave properly and take this to WT:MILHIST. Buckshot06 (talk) 22:59, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll respond partially to number 2 on your talk page. --Lineagegeek (talk) 15:59, 6 May 2015 (UTC)