Talk:Agadir

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Agadir article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Cities

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cities, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of cities, towns and various other settlements on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CitiesWikipedia:WikiProject CitiesTemplate:WikiProject CitiesWikiProject Cities articles

Morocco High‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Morocco, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Morocco on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MoroccoWikipedia:WikiProject MoroccoTemplate:WikiProject MoroccoMorocco articles

High

This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Help expand the project:

You can help! يمكنكم أن تساهموا

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Mounir Charïbi
Assess : Rate the Unassessed Morocco articles and Unknown-importance Morocco-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to articles in Category:Morocco articles missing geocoordinate data
Photo : See requested photographs in Morocco
Stubs : Morocco stubs
Other :
- Translate from Arabic: Sellam Ameziane, Mrebih Rebbu

Berbers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Berbers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Berbers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BerbersWikipedia:WikiProject BerbersTemplate:WikiProject BerbersBerbers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

French embassy

PLEASE THERE SHOULD BE MORE DETAIL OF THE FRENCH EMBASSY IN AGADIR. THERE IS NOTHING AT PRESENT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.202.141.109 (talk) 09:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Twin city?

Gaza claims Agadir to be a twin city. Any references for that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by David stokar (talk • contribs) 19:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm living in agadir since 1993 and i never heard of Gaza as a twin city of Agadir. But i can confirm that Olhao is really a twin-city of Agadir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ihab hatim (talk • contribs) 18:30, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

ݣ U+0763 not ڭ U+06ad

I just want to keep a log of attempts to use the false character: the first time I corrected it ݣ, someone attempted to change it to غ, then someone changed it to the wrong character ڭ, then I changed it back to the correct character ݣ. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 01:59, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

The sections Etymology and Topology give two different etymologies. --C messier (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Collage Agadir.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:52, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Mosque Agadir.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:29, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology: overstretched?

I. Gedera

"Very little remains of the Phoenician language...The Israeli town "Gedera"...have a shared etymology with the Moroccan city "Agadir"."

@Davidbena, 178.233.217.114, and Loew Galitz: hi. "Shared etymology" in the sense of "shared Semitic etymology" is correct, but the text seems to imply "shared Phoenician etymology", which I believe to be wrong. Phoenicians/Canaanites were speaking a Semitic language similar, or in the case of the Late Bronze/Iron Age I Canaanites rather identical with ancient Hebrew (Canaanite origin of the Israelites). Isn't Hebrew "ha-gader" or the equivalent word in Aramaic or another language from the regional Semitic continuum the origin of names such as Gedera, Gadara and Hammath Gader, maybe even Hadera (with the last one I'm afraid I'm overstretching)? Especially names of places far from the coast or south of the classical Phoenician area are less likely to be Phoenician in origin. Arminden (talk) 12:34, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Arminden By no means am I an expert on the Phoenician/Canaanite languages, expect for only having rudimentarily familiarized myself with the Phoenician script - being, as it is, similar to Old Hebrew. Your best best would be to consult a philologist who has studied these languages.Davidbena (talk) 13:18, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi David. I wasn't even going that far. If you happen to know more about "gader" in Hebrew, not in any other language, possibly in association with those place-names (Gedera, Gadara & Hammath Gader, Hadera (?)), that would help with figuring out the answer. Occam's razor would do the rest. Consulting a philologist who has studied all these languages is both far out of my reach, and too much trouble for what's at stake. I know you're very familiar with all levels of Hebrew, that's why I've pinged you, sorry for bothering you with it, so forget it right away if you don't happen to have an answer at the top of your head. Thanks and have a great day, Arminden (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have, in the past, seen articles on the place-name Gader, but it will take me time to dig-up this information, and, at present, the Shabbat is coming on. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 14:20, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

II. "Cothon" & Cadiz

"The Greek word "cothon" refers to a Carthaginian type of fortified basin that can be seen at ancient sites such as Motya."

What's the connection between Greek cothon and Phoenician ʾgdr? If it's NOT etymologically related, but just another example of Phoenician words adopted into other languages, it has no business being here. If it is derived, please do explain how, because it's not fully obvious/intuitive (ʾg -> c, d -> th, r -> on).
Please make sure the sources mentioned at the end of this paragraph (Head (1911), "Phoenician and Punic Inscriptions" p. 141, Strabo, and Pseudo Scymnus) are indeed dealing with "cothon" as well; if not, add the proper sources. Arminden (talk) 14:33, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Is the etymology of Cadiz also covered by those 4 sources? Arminden (talk) 14:33, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the Spanish city of Cádiz, I don't believe there is any debate that the Spanish name is a transliteration of the Arabic name قَادِس‎ (qādis). This is the name of the city in Arabic, and was the name of the Arabic city long before the Spanish conquered the region. The Latin name of the city under Roman rule was Gades, which is where the Arabs got the name 'Qādis.' The Romans adopted many names by adding -s at the end. Ancient Greek record report the name of the Carthaginian city was Γάδειρα (Gā́deira) in Attican/Koine or Γήδειρα (Gḗdeira) in Ionic. These are considered Greek transliterations of the Punic (Canaanite/Phoenician/Carthaginian dialect) 𐤂𐤃𐤓 (gādīr), meaning wall or fortress, with the -a sound added to feminize the name, as Greek names of cities were generally feminine.

I believe the real question you are asking is whether the city in Morocco's name is derived from the Phoenician/Punic term, or the Central Atlas Tamazight ⴰⴳⴰⴷⵉⵔ (agadir). In the Tamazight dialects of Amazigh (Berber / Libyan), there are three closely related words meaning 'wall': ⴰⵖⵔⴰⴱ (aɣrab), ⴰⴳⴰⴷⵉⵔ (agadir), and ⵉⴳⵓⴷⴰⵔ (igudar). It is unclear which of these represents the oldest pronunciation of the word, however, the ancient Egyptians had a similar word meaning 'wall', transliterated as jmḏr, indicating that an earlier root term existed in the Afro-Asiatic languages. It should be noted that only the Libyan / Amazigh languages begin the word with the A- or I- sound, supporting the name being Amazigh in origin, not Semitic (Canaanite/Phoenician).

The city of Agadir is recorded as a Tyrian (Phoenician) colony founded circa 1104 BC, which later became a Carthaginian colony. This colony was known as ‬𐤀𐤂𐤃𐤓 (Agādīr), which is not proper Phoenician (Semitic/Canaanite), and therefore could be argued to be an adopted local name. The coast of southern Morocco had a thriving Tyrian purple industry from the indigenous snails under Tyrian and Carthaginian rule, and was the last stop en route to the Canary Islands. It is generally accepted that the city's name is Canaanite/Phoenician in origin, however, it could be argued that the Tyrians simply established themselves in a Libyan / Imazighen settlement, and the origin of the name is Libyan / Amazigh. J.Stornoway (talk) 21:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]