Talk:Ahmed Moharram

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 20 November 2019 by reviewer Missvain (talk · contribs).

Egypt

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Biography

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This article is written by an individual who is probably Paid to create. It has very few reliable references. I also have some major concerns with this edit on my talk page [1]. --VViking_TalkEdits 15:59, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

COI Editor

I'm at my limit for this article. The COI individual has not taken it to explain their edits, nor their ownership issues of the article. --VViking_TalkEdits 17:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Leadership and membership of committees and scientific societies

Nothing in this section is sourced, nor, does it appear to be relevant. Thoughts? —Eyer (If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message to let me know.) 20:32, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "Significant contributions to Egyptian construction and infrastructure" section only has one reference and it is a primary reference to the company the individual created. In addition I checked the articles that are linked to in the major projects and none of them mention Moharram.--VViking_TalkEdits 22:23, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The only source in the Honors section is www.marefa.org which states it is an encyclopaedia that everyone can contribute to editing, writing or quoting from licensed sources, this would not make it a reliable source.--VViking_TalkEdits 22:25, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The section on his Academic and political life includes information that "Moharram was responsible for the complete supervision of the works executed by the Egyptian contracting companies participating in the construction of the Aswan High Dam" the reference associated with that information does not mention the Aswan High Dam in the article.--VViking_TalkEdits 22:28, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The world record external link in projects does not include Moharram in the link.

I believe this individual meets notability, but as currently written its references to not state what the article claims, and there is much that is more promotional in tone especially when we don't have sources that indicate there is any validity to what is being claimed.--VViking_TalkEdits 22:31, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Per the conversation at the Help Desk

Per the conversation at the Help desk[2] I am going to do further edits to this article as much is still unreferenced.--VViking_TalkEdits 22:39, 31 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with article that are not being addressed by SPA.

The first reference[3] is a primary source and cannot be used to state:

1. that it is considered one of the largest project management groups.

2. The reference as is doesn't mention Moharram as a co-founder, the current 5th reference could be used for that[4].

The second reference[5] does not mention anything about Moharram being a pioneer and an icon in the field of structural engineering. It mentions he was Professor of Engineering and former Minster of Housing.
The Third reference[6], mentions he received many honors and awards, but not what honors and awards.
The 4th reverence is the same reverence as the 3rd. Neither reference mentions he was awared the Medal of the Order of Merit of the 1st Degree, nor the Mubarak's Award. The linked article also does not include the information that Moharram received the Mubarak's award.
The education section is completely unsourced.
Significant contributions to Egyptian Construction and infrastructure section

1. The 6th reference[7] does not say anything about high-profile projects leading to rapid growth, or the expansions into Africa and the Middle East.

2. The article 6th October Bridge does not mention Moharram as proposing the construction of, the designing of or the supervising of the construction of the bridge.

3. The additional information in this section is not sourced, nor is Moharram mentioned in any of the linked articles.

Academic and political life:

1. I am unable to open the 9th reference[8] but I don't dispute he was a minister of Public Utilities. It was mentioned in his obituary[9].

2. There is not a reference concerning Law No.6 of 1964 nor what it states.

3. The information on the Aswan High Dam project, Moharram is not mentioned in the linked article, nor does the referenced obituary[10] state anything about him working on that project.

Honors section does not have a single citation
Leadership and membership of committees and scientific societies also does not have a single citation.
Sources at the bottom

1. [11] this is reference number 3 above and does not mention specific medals.

2. [12] Mentions he headed the Egyptian society of engineers but not that he is a holder of numerous honorary medals which I do not dispute.

3. [13] This could be a see also.

4. [14]This is the citation I cannot open but again I don't dispute that he was a Minister.

5. [15] Primary source already in references and discussed

6. [16] An obituary that has already been discussed and referenced multiple times that adds very little, and nothing that it claims to add.

7. [17] Is Wiki style encyclopedia and therefore not a reliable source for any information.

These are my concerns with changes User:Ibrahimsabotaleb120 is trying to make, which is why I am trying to keep the short version because that information can be verified by the sources.VViking_TalkEdits 15:51, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Approved???

User:Missvain Please help me to understand why this was approved in its current state. I have stated a number of issues above and it appears none of them have been addressed. Entire sections are still unsourced including Education, Significant contributions to Egyptian construction and infrastructure, Honors, and Leadership and membership of committees and scientific societies. The sources are still the same poor sources that were mentioned above. The article as written was denied once before and then again it was moved back to draft after the author bypassed the approval process. Thank you, --VViking_TalkEdits 14:29, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am a staunch believer in "improve rather than disapprove" when it comes to Articles for Creation. The subject is deceased, so we don't have to worry about BLP concerns. He is a member of the Order of Egypt (you probably can't find that information because it's in Arabic :) ). He and Michel Bakhoum (talk about an article that is in dreadful condition - there are no citations!) founded the most influential architectural engineering firm in Egypt. Here's one of the few nice English language sources in which he's referred from Structure in a piece about Michel Bakhoum. He's also listed in The Egyptian Encyclopedia, but it can't be accessed online. There is also a prize named after him at the University of Cairo for contributions in engineering. The article just needs to be improved and many of the sources are in Arabic. Might be a good idea to reach out to an Arabic language Wikipedian or perhaps creating a friendly dialogue with the creator of the article to see how you can better support them with advice. They might speak Arabic and can help find the sources needed to beef this article up. Keep in mind the majority of people who submit content through the mess of a project called AfC have *no clue* what they are doing. The vast majority also have good faith in their submissions. Mr. Moharram is notable and deserves an article. I encourage editors to spend time improving the article before anything else. Cheers and thanks for your contributions. Missvain (talk) 17:37, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Users User:David Biddulph and User:Eagleash both determined there were not enough quality references to approve this article. There was a lot of discussion around this article at the time it was originally created. It was denied as not having reliable sources. It was then created by the initial author of the article without correcting the reference issues. At which time is was moved back to the draft by User:Bearcat as an out of process cut-paste move of an article. The individual who originally created the article did not participate (as you can see in the talk page) in any conversation that tried to improve the article. As I mentioned earlier in the talk page, I do believe this individual is notable, but on the Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/Reviewing instructions page if you follow the creation workflow, the article is not reliably sourced, therefore according to the policy it must be declined. The original creator had ample opportunities to find RS in Arabic, which I will accept if they truly are Reliable. But they did not come up with anything. I strongly disagree with your decision to go against consensus of past reviews and discussions to publish this article as it stands now. I would be okay with a previous version, (that is not in the new history) which was basically a stub, but to bring it back the way it is, and not have an opportunity to see the history and revert to a version that actually has information that are verified by sources is a sad state. VViking_TalkEdits 18:48, 21 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know how to participate in these discussions. The syntax seem complex and I am not into coding or these sorts of stuff. If I am paid to create this wikipedia page as User:Viewmont Viking claims, I would have been a wikipedia expert. But I am not .. I can barely write this paragraph and I hope it shows up in the right place. The bullying the User:Viewmont Viking and his/her likes are doing should be reported, and I don't konw how. But, I don't care. Because of him/her, I will not contribute to wikipedia again. But I will keep fighting for this page. I want to clarify something, Prof. Ahmed Moharram is well-known in Egypt as Missvain mentioned. The problem is that his contributions were in the era before internet. I cannot get English sources for his contributions. They are mainly hard copies. For example, the awards that he received were awarded by the Egyptian president himself for God's sake! The only soft copy that is there is a scan from a news article and some websites that User:Viewmont Viking did not approve. And there are TONS of pages (including the page of President Trump himself) that are lacking citations in some areas; however, they are known by the people in that field. In my case, I provided citations and websites, but User:Viewmont Viking is bullying and saying they are not good enough. It seems that User:Viewmont Viking only wants journal articles. Back off please and don't waste my time and your time. Dear Missvain, thank you for your review. You are a blessing. Would you care to help in making the article to the satisfaction of his/her highness User:Viewmont Viking? User:Ibrahimsabotaleb120 22:23, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]