Talk:Batman: Knightfall

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Knightsaga

Knightsaga is a name so informal that I have never heard it or of it, despite reading comics and about comics for over 21 years.

Yes, where does this come from? --Chris Griswold 06:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this article should simply be Batman: Knightfall or the Knightfall trilogy. --Destron Commander 10:51, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Drake

What happened to Jack Drake?--Chris Griswold 06:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He was boomerang'd - Neodammerung 22:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think he was kidnapped - MastertagUSA 14:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Factual error and rude comment

I believe someone has mangled the first sentence. It was bane that released the inmates not Paul and the rude comment has no basis in the comics or novel.

Also has anyone ever heard of this being made into a radio play? Steve —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reboot95 (talk • contribs) 03:14 July 3, 2006

I recall tapes being sold in bookstores, yes. --Chris Griswold 08:02, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have the radio show on cassette tape, it was broadcast on BBC Radio 1 here in the UK in short 5 or 10 minute segments. It's groovy. --Earthling2020 09:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Yes, it was made a radio play. I think BBC produced it.

I know this is in the wrong place but I don't know how to use the talk feature but would like to improve the quality of this article so I am placing my contribution here. The following paragraph is extremely confusing and poorly worded:

"When they eventually all meet, Bruce, Jean-Paul, and Selkirk fight. The battle ends in the mobster's helicopter as Jean-Paul's grapnel gun locks one of the rotors and Catwoman knocks away a gun intended to kill Bruce and Jean-Paul. The helicopter crashes into the Gotham Narrows Bridge; coupled with fuel from the chopper mixing with Jean-Paul's flame-thrower, he falls into the Gotham River. Bruce and Catwoman save Selkirk and his aides just before the helicopter explodes from the leaking gasoline. When Bruce tries to find Jean-Paul using the Batmobile, it explodes. He realizes that Jean-Paul would have booby-trapped the car and escapes just in time. After the explosion, Nightwing fears Bruce dead and take his vengeance out on Jean-Paul on a party boat. The police arrive in time to prevent Nightwing's murder, but Jean-Paul escapes. However, to his shock, Jean-Paul finds Bruce waiting at Wayne Manor."

I think that someone who has read the comic should rephrase this so that it makes sense and flows logically.

Table of Chapters

Can somebody figure out how best to incorporate this table (which I've just typed up myself)? I think it's a lot more useful than the various ways this info is presented in the current article... -leigh (φθόγγος) 01:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Knightfall 1: Broken Bat	Knightfall 2: Who Rules the Night	Knightquest: The Crusade	Knightquest: The Search	KnightsEnd ("Knightfall 3")
Batman #491-492 Detective Comics #659 Batman #493 Detective Comics #660 Batman #494 Detective Comics #661 Batman #495 Detective Comics #662 Batman #496 Detective Comics #663 Batman #497	Detective Comics #664 Showcase '93 #7-8 Batman #498 Batman: Shadow of the Bat #16-18 Detective Comics #665 Batman #499 Detective Comics #666 Batman #500	Detective Comics #667-668 Robin #1 Detective Comics #669 Batman #501-502 Shadow of the Bat #19-20 Detective Comics #670 Catwoman #6 Batman #503-504 Catwoman #7 Shadow of the Bat #24 Detective Comics #671-673 Batman #505 Shadow of the Bat #25 Batman #506-507 Shadow of the Bat #26-27 Detective Comics #674 Batman #508 Shadow of the Bat #28 Detective Comics #675 Robin #7	Justice League Task Force #5-6 Shadow of the Bat #21-23 Legends of the Dark Knight #59-61	Batman #509 Batman: Shadow of the Bat #29 Detective Comics #676 Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #62 Robin #8 Catwoman #12 Batman #510 Batman: Shadow of the Bat #30 Detective Comics #677 Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #63 Robin #9

Did my best to include a full reading-order table without taking up too much space. (Gipperfish 10:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Moved Catwoman #6 to "Knightquest: The Search" table as that is where is claims to appear on the cover. DigitalShepherd 22:17, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good call--are there any other mis-placed issues? (Gipperfish 19:35, 9 June 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Prodigal and Troika

Should we really add Prodigal and Troika? I thought this article was about Knightfall? I really think Prodigal and Troika are separate storylines that followed Knightfall. True, the comics had Bruce Wayne not coming too soon full time as Batman and we had to go the route of Prodigal. But to the public at large, Knightfall ended with KnightsEnd and the return of Bruce as Batman. Anyone? --Destron Commander 04:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree that they are separate storylines, it remains that the events of Troika (new costume, etc) are reaction against what has transpired. So I think it is a good idea to have them both. --Bob Kroll

Red blood censorship

Why is there no mention of DC removing the blood from the cover of Batman 497? I remember before the issue was released DC used the cover image from Batman 497 (with Bane bending Batman over his leg) in advertisements for the knightfall story. When the image appeared in non comics code books (Wizard magazine, Heroes illustrated, comics buyer's guide, etc.) Bane's leg was covered in bright red blood. But when used in the actual comic the blood vanished. I think this should be included in the article sense as I recall the missing blood sparked more interest then the storyline.The Goat 16:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The never planned delay

Can anyone recall which issue of Wizard magazine where there was this interview with Denny O'Neil? He revealed that had he and his staff known about the Superman camp's big plan, he would have had delayed the Knightfall storyline by another year just so the public wouldn't think both events were commercially related. But it was too late to back out then and they had to proceed and do their best. --Destron Commander (talk) 07:16, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with File:Bane-breaks-Batman-497pg21.png

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Reason why Bruce didn't ask Dick to fill in

After the events of Knightfall:Broken Bat Bruce asked Jean Paul instead of Dick to fill in for him.The reason this article gives is Bruce's rationale for this decision is revealed in later issues - secretly, he doesn't want Dick to have to face Bane, as he knows Dick's character will compel him to try. Which issues are they talking about? After reading this I went back and flipped through the entire Knightfall trilogy and Prodigal and found no mention of the reason above.76.109.144.28 (talk) 18:53, 10 July 2009 (UTC)jondoe297[reply]

Robin #7

Why is it listed in both 'The Crusade' and 'The Search'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.204.130.21 (talk) 15:06, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is the narrative conclusion to both of those story tracks, and brings things back into a unified narrative for the start of KnightsEnd. Both Detective 675 and Legends 61 state that Robin 7 continues the story. TravelingCat (talk) 19:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Film Section?

Hi, Is there anyway we can get a film section in this article, to show how it influenced several crucial elements in The Dark Knight Rises

The Flash.

Should the second season episode of The Flash "Enter Zoom" be mentioned? It seems to allude heavily at the end, except with different characters. Omeganian (talk) 17:16, 13 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mistake in the article

Can someone please put the cover for Justice League Task Force #5 back into the article? Thank you.Malcolmlucascollins (talk) 17:28, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war

@Batman Fan 31593 and Tatum-Tatum: this edit war is absolutely ridiculous. Follow WP:BRD and discuss the issue here. FWIW, I think it's totally acceptable to call Robin #0 part of "Prodigal", especially considering this quote from the cited Bleeding Cool source: DC Comics never seems to collect the first part of the Prodigal crossover series, Robin #0, with the rest of them. JOE BRO 64 22:18, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoebro64 and Tatum-Tatum: I apologize for the long edit war. I am not a frequent wikipedia editor and I'm not fully knowledgeable of all the procedures. I also think it is totally acceptable to include Robin #0 as part of the reading order of "Prodigal", especially with the justification of the provided link and comment. I believe the main objection to including it was that it was not an "official" part of the story with the trade dress and a numbered part. However it is an essential prologue to the storyline, which DC has now acknowledged by including this issue in the most recent trade paperback of "Prodigal". There is precedent on this very page's reading order section for including other issues that were not "officially" part of the story, but were included in trade paperback collections, such as Batman #491 and Showcase '94 #10. I was attempting to do the same for Robin #0 by listing it under "Prodigal", without a part number, with the link and comment to justify inclusion.

As I never received an answer on your talk page, I'll post this here, too: Not everything included in a collection is part of a story just for being there. "Robin" 0 is included in the "Batman: Zero Hour" trade paperback because it is part of that event, not "Prodigal". See Zero Hour: Crisis in Time!.

"Robin" 1-2 were included in the first "Knightquest" trade paperback and you don't see those listed. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 23:49, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But that doesn't address the fact we have a secondary, reliable source explicitly stating it's part of the storyline. JOE BRO 64 00:22, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's part of "Zero Hour". It only leads into "Prodigal". Tatum-Tatum (talk) 22:21, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source that justifies your change? JOE BRO 64 23:12, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoebro64 and Tatum-Tatum: I believed the linked article and the note that were provided with Robin #0 were sufficient to justify it's inclusion in the reading order. Would you accept the inclusion of this issue if the text of the note was edited as follows to acknowledge Zero Hour? "Robin #0, while officially part of the Zero Hour event, is also an essential lead in to Batman: Prodigal. The ending conversation in this issue continues right into Batman #512's opening pages (not to mention Robin #0 also features key set up to Two-Face's Prodigal story and long personal feud with Dick). This issue is included in the new 25th anniversary edition Batman: Prodigal trade paperback, released in 2019." Batman Fan 31593

It is not essential. You can understand "Prodigal" without reading that issue. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 22:22, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@TheJoebro64 and Tatum-Tatum: Okay, then the word “essential” can be changed to “significant”. It is significant enough to the story that DC finally decided to include it in the latest trade paperback. Batman Fan 31593

The intention behind adding Robin #0 to the reading order, is to enhance the reading experience for anybody that is choosing to use this page as a reading guide. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 23:52, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree "Robin" 0 doesn't even explain why Batman chose Nightwing to replace him. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 17:29, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The significance of Robin #0 is the backstory between Dick Grayson and Two-Face. This is of great importance later in the Prodigal arc. There are flashbacks later on to explain, but Robin #0 does the best job of fleshing out the backstory to provide more context for the story later on. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 22:13, 19 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Attempting new edit per Cycle step of WP:BRD. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 17:13, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That backstory is explained in "Prodigal" too. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 01:53, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am filing a request on the dispute resolution noticeboard, due to a failure to reach consensus. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Attempting new edit to acknowledge Robin #0 without listing directly under Prodigal. I hope this is an acceptable compromise. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 18:31, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Removed it from the list under the table. Not relevant to that list. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ok that is fine as long as the linked article and the note can stay attached to the “Prodigal” title. Batman Fan 31593 (talk) 23:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fine. Tatum-Tatum (talk) 01:13, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Knightfall (comics)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Knightfall (comics) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 3 § Knightfall (comics) until a consensus is reached. Jay 💬 13:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]