Talk:Ben Smith (CrossFit)

Major Revision April,2019

There was only a lead and template of the game results. I added Early Life, Personal Life, Diet & Training, Professional Career, and Crossfit game results. I copied it all from my sandbox. In the early life section I talked about how he grew up, what school he went to, and when he first became interested in CrossFit. In the Personal Life section I talked about his family what he does during his free time and I included his diet & training. For an athlete what he eats and how he trains is important, especially for crossfit. In the Professional career section I talk about his crossfit career, motivations, etc. Finally, I added words to go along with the crossfit game results so it'll be easier to read. Elliefrog (talk) 15:21, 3 April 2019 (UTC)EllieFrog

@Elliefrog, CrossFit117, and Brendan954: First off, please read WP:NOTDIARY, especially "news reporting about celebrities and sports figures can be very frequent and cover a lot of trivia, but using all these sources would lead to over-detailed articles that look like a diary". There is way too much fluff (ie, un-encyclopedic content) added. Phrases like "he'll sneak in some pizza" and "Ben loves bacon, he eats it for breakfast, dinner, and as a snack" is unacceptable.

Second, there are a great many Manual of Style issues. MOS:CONTRACTIONS, MOS:SECTIONCAPS, MOS:POSTABBR, etc.

Third, and probably one the biggest issues other than WP:NOTDIARY, is Words to Watch. There are a several problematic WP:EDITORIAL flourishes here that makes your versions of the article un-encyclopedic in tone and heavy leaning on the non-neutral point of view. Other phrases like "Ben also uses Progenex, which is a protein powder" is also strictly WP:PROMO and is not allowed (they are/were his sponsor).

There are also several duplicate references that can be better consolidated (your can see how I did that here or read WP:CITE). I will be chopping this down significantly if you do not, but it would be a good learning experience if you try first. Yosemiter (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Yosemiter is correct. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 18:40, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Elliefrog, CrossFit117, and Brendan954: Before you continue to add to this, please respond to issues indicated here first as requested by myself and User:Jauerback. Please cut out the existing fluff before adding more (such as the WP:NOTSTATS). For a good example of a somewhat more encyclopedic CrossFit bio, see Rich Froning Jr. (even though that too has some issues, but not nearly as severe as the ones here). Thank you, Yosemiter (talk) 17:38, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

@Elliefrog, CrossFit117, and Brendan954: Please take a look at this edit to show what I mean about the WP:NOTDIARY and WP:PUFFERY. Wikipedia should not be a note-by-note recap of someone's life. Phrases like "Ben met his wife, Noelle, in their junior year of high school while attending their chemistry class" is better as "Ben met his wife, Noelle, in their junior year of high school" because chemistry class has nothing to do with anything. It is fluff. "Facts" such as "He's called the cross-fit (sic) gym as his second home because it is a place where him and his closest friends can work out, relax, and hang out." You have pretty much defined why people like CrossFit gyms, this has nothing to do with Mr. Smith and the sentence is simply filler.

Now go ahead and try the same cutting technique on the other sections. Yosemiter (talk) 19:35, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

@Yosemitter: Diet and training is a huge part of his life and the crossfit games. I think adding his training and workout methods would be beneficial as long as it doesn't sound like a "diary" or "journal." In order to compete in the games and become stronger he has to have a workout regimen. That's important, he wouldn't be where he is now without it. It's the foundation that started it all. Not only Ben, it should be incorporated in all crossfit athlete articles. It shows you how they got so strong to compete in the first place.Elliefrog (talk) 13:56, 11 April 2019 (UTC)Elliefrog

@Elliefrog: His diet is there and fine as is. Do not add fluff like "Smith loves bacon" as it is trivial and definitely falls into the diary entry category. The specific products he uses should not be mentioned, they are almost always due to sponsored products (I do know these companies directly. While I have never been sponsored, I know athletes who have. I also know some of the marketing people who sponsored said athletes.) As to training, what is there to say? Stating he works out 2-3 times a day, like all professionals, would be fine. Adding "He started off training in his garage with a simple set up that he made from watching YouTube. After he got equipped, he enjoyed working out in his garage" is trivia. It does not define his workouts at all, and certainly is not how he currently trains at CF Krypton. (See the line I added in his career history: "He mostly trained in his garage or outside in his backyard.") Adding some definable personal bests to the infobox (like I did for his lifts) is fine as long as it is not indiscriminate (READ that link. In short though, it says do not list all stats and probably best not to use benchmarks that only those familiar with CF would understand). Yosemiter (talk) 14:44, 11 April 2019 (UTC)