Talk:Blue Yodel No. 1 (T for Texas)

Singles chrono

The actual single "Ben Dewberry's Final Run" shows "In the Jailhouse Now" as the B-side.[1] "Mother Was a Lady" is shown as the B-side of "Treasures Untold".[2] Normally, only the A-sides are listed in the chrono, unless they are double A-sides (Victor indicated "The Soldier's Sweetheart" as 20864-B and "In the Jailhouse Now" as 21245-B). Also, double As use a different format (see Template:Infobox song#Chronology for double-A-side singles). On the other hand, chronos probably aren't meaningful for 90-year old records (see "Cross Road Blues", "Baby, Please Don't Go", etc.). —Ojorojo (talk) 18:25, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ojorojo: Well, I put both tunes of the record in the chronology because back in those days, which song was on each side was pretty much irrelevant to the record companies. They did not care to promote an A side. I see those records do not have a chronology, but why deleting it from the article?--GDuwenHoller! 18:27, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

So "Ben Dewberry's Final Run" had two different flip sides ("In the Jailhouse Now" and "Mother Was a Lady")? To list them both with an explanation would add unnecessary detail to an already long infobox. In those days "single" did not have the significance it later acquired, so tracking them was, as you say, irrelevant. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:17, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

I see the point about it making it a long infobox. I was thinking to use it as a navigation box, after creating articles for those songs. There is anyway now a comprehensive list with his discography. And about "Ben Dewberry's Final Run", I would have list its earliest release (April 1928), paired with "Jailhouse". I know some songs were pressed again for other releases, but that is its earliest appearance on the Victor catalog.--GDuwenHoller! 22:21, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

If nagivation is the goal, it can be better handled with a navbox at the bottom of the article. It would have the added benefit of listing all his linked songs, albums, etc., not just the previous and next. See Template:Blind Willie Johnson, Template:Robert Johnson, etc. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:28, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I've done a number of those for other articles, but the ones related to Jimmie Rodgers are just not that far. Maybe in some future with some more articles available.--GDuwenHoller! 19:14, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Blue Yodel No. 1 (T for Texas)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 07:48, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I found and corrected mistakes before I saw this. I have excellent sources. Sorry-Dace Tillywilly17 (talk) 04:55, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I will review this later today, was good to work with you on the Kui Lee review and hopefully you'll keep up your level of response here! --K. Peake 07:48, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Should the name be "Blue Yodel" or "Blue Yodel No. 1 (T for Texas)"
• February 1928 → February 3, 1928, as that is mentioned as the exact release date in the body
• Victor Studio 1, New York City → Victor 1 (New York City) since the word studio is not supposed to be used in the infobox's parameter of the same name
• Blues is not sourced as a genre; the song is only mentioned as including a pattern and licks, so solely keep country here since that is sourced
• Rodgers is not sourced anywhere in the body as having written the song; mention this in the opening section, as there is too little personnel for a section
• Remove the audio sample from the infobox since not only is there one of the song in the body already, but samples don't belong in infoboxes
• "is a song written by" → "is a song by American singer-songwriter" since you need to introduce who he is
• The sentence should end after his name; follow this up with the second sentence mentioning who produced and wrote the song. Also, the release info should be the sentence after this one.
• "released by the" → "The song was released as a single by the" with the target
• "in February 1928." → "on February 3, 1928."
• "Rodgers recorded it" should start the sentence after the release one
• "had originally recorded Rodgers" → "had originally recorded with Rodgers"
• Target Bristol Sessions to Bristol sessions
• "The tune features a traditional bar form blues," → "The song features a traditional blues bar form," with the wikilinks
• "during the instrumental breaks between stanzas." → "during the breaks between stanzas."
• Add info about the lyrical meaning of the song to the lead
• Merge the second and third paras, as they are both too short at three sentences each
• "It became Rodgers'" → "The song became Rodgers'"
• "his live performances and" → "his live performances, and"
• Target Blue Yodels to Blue yodel
• "and Rodgers became known" → "with Rodgers becoming known"
• "recorded the song," → "recorded their versions of the song,"

Background

• "As a teenager, Jimmie Rodgers sang" → "As a teenager, Rodgers sang"
• "As an adult," → "During his adulthood," to avoid starting two consecutive sentences the same way
• [1] should be at the end of the second sentence too since it should be invoked more than once during four sentences
• "He selected a group" → "Rodgers selected a group"
• "That same year, Victor Talking Machine Company's producer" → "Also in 1972, the Victor Talking Machine Company's producer" since this is a new para
• "record local talent following" → "record local talent, following"
• "in Bristol, Tennessee, on" → "in Bristol, per"
• Target sessions to Bristol sessions
• "On August 4," → "On August 4, 1927"
• "produced the record" → "produced the tracks"

Recording

• Retitle to Recording and composition, as this section also deals with the song's comp
• Img looks good!
• "he was in town" → "he was there"
• "a few songs.[5] Peer set up" → "a few songs;[5] Peer set up" since those two sentences are too short and should be merged
• "for November 30." → "for November 30, 1927."
• "at the Victor Talking Machine's" → "at the Victor Talking Machine Company's
• Wikilink acoustics
• "by other artists. Peers intended" → "by other artists, as Peers intended"
• Target "Blue Yodels" to Blue yodel
• Wikilink should be on double entendre part of the text, ending before the plural
• "Rodgers' either developed using" → "Rodgers either developed the usage of"
• "Rodgers' wife, Carrie, suggested" → "Jimmie Rodgers' wife Carrie suggested" per MOS:SAMESURNAME
• "told the story of" → "was used to tell the story of"
• "on her and her lover." → "on her and the lover."
• "He says he is" → "The narrator says he is"
• Wikilink blues
• "a month before Rodgers' recording session took place" are you referring to the Studio 1 session? If so, then reword appropriately.
• "train can haul"." → "train can haul."", as that is a full sentence quoted, but you need to add wording to make the passenger train parts relevant to the article
• ""The Faking Blues" the line changed to," → ""The Faking Blues", the line is changed to,"
• "train can haul"." → "train can haul.""
• "had appeared in Ma Rainey's" → "appeared in Ma Rainey's"
• The audio sample text should aligned to the left, as there is media earlier in this section on the right so it looks awkward to have this on the same side later on. Also, wikilink yodeling, add a full-stop at the end of the sentence and invoke the appropriate citations here because the signature part is not mentioned until the next section.
• "that suggest a" → "and suggesting a"
• Wikilink walking bass per MOS:LINK2SECT

Release and reception

• Img looks good!
• "after the recording session," → "after the Studio 1 recording session,"
• "and paired it with "Away Out in the Mountain"." → "and paired it with the B-side "Away Out in the Mountain"." with the target, to be more specific
• "on February 3." → "on February 3, 1928."
• "with the Washington, D.C., radio station" → "with Washington, D.C. radio station"
• "It spent fourteen consecutive weeks topping" → "It spent 14 consecutive weeks atop" per MOS:NUM
• "By September, Rodgers'" → "By September 1928, Rodgers'"
• The equivalent amounts are not backed up
• "to US$100,000" → "to $100,000" since you have already identified the type of dollar being written as the US one
• "Rodgers' sang the song" → "Rodgers sang the song"
• "short, The Singing Brakeman." → "short film The Singing Brakeman."
• "released on Columbia Records" → "which was released on Columbia Records"
• "a version in June." → "a version in June 1928."
• "recorded in February 1930" → "recorded in February 1930,"

Legacy

Later recordings

• "rendition on Capitol Records" → "rendition for Capitol Records"
• "record dealers and" → "record dealers, and"
• "The reviewer noted that" → "The magazine's reviewer noted that"
• "version on Monument Records" → "version for Monument Records"
• "Hot Country Songs." → "US Hot Country Songs chart."
• "included it on" → "included their version on"
• Add release year of Wanted! The Outlaws in brackets
• "first platinum-certified record." → "first platinum-certified record in the US."
• "peaked at number thirty-nine in" → "peaked at number 39 on" per MOS:NUM

Influence

• "at number twenty-nine on" → "at number 29 on"
• "The publication defined it" → "The publication's staff defined it"
• "Rodgers line from" → "Rodgers' lyrics from" since that is more than a line
• "poor Thelma, Just to" → "poor Thelma/Just to"
• Add release year of "Folsom Prison Blues" in brackets
• Add a comma after the book's title
• "During George Harrison's childhood," → "During band member George Harrison's childhood," so it flows better from the previous sentence

Chart performance

• Retitle to Charts, as this is displaying the positions without any prose
• Lay the positions out in the proper format; take recently-passed GA "Más Allá" for example and use "Despacito" as a guideline to seperate the different versions' positions
• See MOS:TABLECAPTION

References

• Copyvio score looks very good at 23.1%!
• Archive all of these that can be
• Prentice-Hall → Prentice Hall, citing as publisher instead
• Target Chattanooga Daily Times to Chattanooga Times Free Press
• Target Rounder Books to Rounder Records
• Target The Journal of American Folklore to Journal of American Folklore
• Target Simon and Schuster to Simon & Schuster
• Cite Oxford University Press as publisher instead
• Target Facts on File to Infobase Publishing
• Cite The Charlotte Observer as newspaper instead
• The Miami Herald → Miami Herald
• Target Hachette UK to Hachette (publisher)
• Allmusic → AllMusic, citing as publisher instead (only wikilink for the former source)

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed; I definitely noticed a lack of OR here compared to Lee's article! --K. Peake 19:09, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

Assessment

@Kyle Peake::As an opening comment, I thank again your interest to review another one of my articles. It is nice to work with such an attentive reviewer. Now a few points:

• I added within the body of the article a line to clarify that Rodgers was credited with writing the song.
• I moved the excerpt of the introduction of the song to another box down below with the yodel. Now, I want to make a case for keeping both files. I consider important to use the opening lines, since it is the direct cause as to why people refer to this song as "T for Texas". I left in the infobox "Blue Yodel" because it is the name that appears on the label of the record, and the original name of the publishing and such. When it comes to the yodel, I added an excerpt because a paragraph of the section discusses it at length. That, in addition to the reduced quality and 10% of the total duration, would qualify it as fair use.
• I hold something against linking it to Single (music) or defining A-side and B-side. Most of the bibliography that talks about the early recording era refers to the releases rather as "disks" or "records". The point is that back then, there were no albums, therefore nothing to promote. Moreover, as you can read in the subsection "History" of the A and B side Wikipedia entry, there was no value assigned to which song was to be put on each side of the record. The record business was pretty much just being established, and this concepts appeared by the end of the 1940s, or early 1950s. Unfortunately, I can't access now the preview on Google Books to provide you with a link, but it was nicely covered on pages 193 and 194 of this book.
• Tell me what you think about the changes in the charts. It is the first time I use this new system.

Again, thanks for taking the review. About the OR, you could say I did not deviate too much this time because Rodgers is a subject nicely covered by books. I pretty much had to piece up the story of Kui Lee from newspapers for the previous article, and sometimes I forgot from where I even got some things. But well, I'll be more careful next time. Thankfully, topics like this one have been carefully researched by a great number of authors.--GDuwenHoller! 21:44, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

I forgot to mention something about the recording personnel. Well, there was Rodgers and his guitar for sure. Peer was on the booth. Rather than that, there are no details available as to mention engineers and such. But it is rather common when it comes to recordings of this period. If you are really lucky, there are some details available of the people behind the recording, but I would consider that a luxury! The information contained on the record labels/matrix details tends to be rather scarce. By the way, do you think that it is worthy to mention the 1933 overdub mentioned here?--GDuwenHoller! 22:04, 20 January 2021 (UTC)

GDuwen Thank you for going into such detail in response! It is fine for you to have moved the infobox sample to the body next to the yodelling one, but they both required text even if the yodelling is mentioned throughout that area; just try summarization text moreso in this context. They still need to be moved to the left as well, plus the charts need fixing a lot still – take a proper look at the articles I wikilinked. --K. Peake 05:50, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:I took a second look at the table, and then I went right to the link of the manual of style. I added that caption. I also noted that about the "scope" columns. I didn't even notice that stuff when looking at the code for "Más Allá"! (Obviously, things have changed lately, and I kept editing charts the same way for the last ten years. Time to do a tour around my old ones!). The sound samples are now aligned to the left.--GDuwenHoller! 19:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

GDuwen It is fine, updates are ongoing regularly and you still need to fix the audio sample text for yodelling. --K. Peake 19:44, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:Done.--GDuwenHoller! 19:51, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@GDuwen: ✓ Pass now after some copy editing from me; you did not add info about the meaning of the song to the lead, but I'm not entirely sure if it is actually notable for the lead on second consideration... how do you feel? This is only minor, which is why I can still pass. --K. Peake 20:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake:Oh, yea, I forgot that. I'll add a simple line to reflect it. Otherwise, thanks for another dedicated review!--GDuwenHoller! 20:59, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

GDuwen My pleasure, you are a very constructive worker to interact with on here and it is plausible how you've always been responsive to me in a good amount of time! I am fine with you having missed a few points that I went over as it's hard to get everything first time, plus thanks for the new fix! --K. Peake 21:03, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Edge3 (talk) 01:38, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

1928 advertisement promoting Rodgers as "America's Blue Yodeler"

• ... that "Blue Yodel No. 1 (T for Texas)" was Jimmie Rodgers' first hit song? p.39 of Wolff, Kurt (2000). Country Music: The Rough Guide. Rough Guides. ISBN 978-1-858-28534-4.
  • ALT1:... that Jimmie Rodgers' 1928 recording of "Blue Yodel No. 1 (T for Texas)" influenced Johnny Cash for a line of "Folsom Prison Blues"? p. 53 of Edwards, Leigh (2009). Johnny Cash and the Paradox of American Identity. Indiana University Press. ISBN 978-0-253-22061-5.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Monumento a la Raza (Medellín)

Improved to Good Article status by GDuwen (talk). Self-nominated at 22:19, 22 January 2021 (UTC).

• Article was promoted to GA-status and was nominated on due time. It is long enough and neutral. It cites sources inline. "Earwig's Copyvio Detector" reports moderate text similarity rate for one source, however, they are quotes only. The hook (I prefer ALT1) is well-formatted and interesting. Its length is within limit. Its fact is sourced inline. QPQ was done (Your review was not signed). Image is ©-free. Good to go. CeeGee 18:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

@CeeGee: Oops! just signed the review, it just went over my head at the time I guess. Thanks for taking up the review by the way.GDuwenHoller! 19:07, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Produced by Ralph Peer

I am having trouble verifying that Ralph Peer produced or supervised the November 30, 1927 recording session. I already changed the non-sourced claim of Victor Studios in New York City. My sources can all be found in the infobox on each item. I am familiar with DAHR's meticulous procedures for identifying Victor's recording and release dates, and session information. I know they also check copyrights, but I prefer to do this myself, to confirm the song title, composers, lyricists, publishers and dates. DAHR, more often than not, finds session supervisors, or individuals referred to as the equivalent of our modern day producers. They found nothing for this session. I had to remove Peer as producer (but added him as song publisher). Anybody with reliable info to add, please do, but do your best to confirm it. I already consider the vote 0-1 on producer claim. I have found DAHR to be incorrect on occasion. There are a number of non-referenced claims in this article, maybe regulations have slowly increased over the years. Tillywilly17 (talk) 04:48, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

BEFORE | studio = Victor 1 (New York City)

AFTER | recorded = November 30, 1927 (1927-11-30) | studio = Trinity Church Studio, Camden, New Jersey

Peer set up an appointment for November 30, 1927. The session took place at the Victor Talking Machine Company's Studio 1 in a repurposed building that had been the former Camden Trinity Baptist Church, favored for its acoustics.

Cool - we agree on studios. New York was an error, he meant Camden, so that is now fixed Infobox and article in sync

Only error was "New York" I changed that to Camden and added copyright date. Did not touch main article!

@Tillywilly17: Thanks for the corrections/additions. About Peer, he was in the room at the time the song was recorded. He booked the session, and the fact that he was there and that he was Rodgers' producer probably was enough for some sources to consider him the direct producer of "Blue Yodel". Does that make him the actual producer? not necessarily. Did Rodgers or some recording engineer produce the record? I couldn't find anything about it.--GDuwenHoller! 19:18, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

I cannot imagine hi\m doing all that he did and not being there, and if he was, his capacity would be that of a modern day producer I will restore the statement Tillywilly17 (talk) 23:44, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

@Tillywilly17: DAHR shows there were two takes of the song recorded, and that one was held. The way things were those days, I could image it was something along the lines of "alright, Jimmie, do another one for me". I don't think there was much production involved other than recording and selecting the final take.--GDuwenHoller! 19:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

re publication

At the time of copyright,. "Blue Yodel" had not been published

Blue Yodel ; words and melody by J.

Rodgers. © 1 c. Feb. 3, 1928; E

681749 ; Ralph Peer, New York. 2731

Blue yodel ; fox trot, words and music

by Jimmy Rodgers ; pf. ace, with

ukulele arr. by May Singhi Breen.

© Apr. 3, 1928; 2 c. Apr. 23; E

691013; United pub. co., New York. 7912

copyright date Feb 3 1928

pub date none

To save space in the Catalogue, the Copyright notice after each title is ab- breviated. The abbreviations used in this part are as follows: " E," Class E, Musical compositions; " D," Class D, Dramatico-musical compositions; " ©," implies copyright registration of a published composition, followed by date of publication; " © 1 c," stands for copyright of an unpublished work, followed by date of receipt in the Copyright Office of the printed or manuscript copy; and " 2 c," for 2 copies, followed by the date of their receipt. In the case of contributions to periodicals only one copy of the issue or issues containing such contributions is required. Tillywilly17 (talk) 05:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

sales

If you are not a hardcore Jimmie Rodgers fan, collector or editor, don't read this

At the second session on Nov. 30 recorded "Ben Dewberry's Final Run"; "Mother Was A Lady"; "Away Out on the Mountain"; and "T for Texas" in Victor’s Camden, NJ studios. Rodgers and Peer had issued "Mother Was A Lady" as a Jimmie Rodgers composition “If Brother Jack Were Here.” [When the single was released eight months later a lawsuit was threatened by the composers. Victor stopped selling the initial pressing and it was released under the titile "Mother Was A Lady." Many of Rodgers’ songs were arranged from traditional sources; an example is his “In the Jailhouse Now” and many of his blue yodels.] The single “T for Texas/Away Out on The Mountain” released in Feb. 1928 sold slowly at first.

After receiving his first royalty check for a meager $27 early in 1928, Rodgers was not happy with Peer or Victor and approached Columbia for an audition in Atlanta. Frank Walker, head of Columbia’s Old Familiar Tunes that had recorded the Skillet Lickers and would one day sign Hank Williams, listened to Jimmie sing. He turned to his assistant Bill Brown and said, “Who needs Jimmie Rodgers, we’ve got Riley Puckett.”

In April Rodgers received his second check for $400 from Victor reflection over 100,000 in sales. Then by the summer of 1928 “T for Texas” really took off giving Rodgers his first hit single. He was averaging $1,000 a month in royalties. The singles he recorded in 1928 would reportedly all sell over a million copies. Jimmie Rodgers was a star.

“The Soldier’s Sweetheart” (Victor 20864), recorded August 4, 1927, at Bristol, Tennessee

his first royalty check for a meager $27 early in 1928 (for

1928/04/15

$400

(for 100,000+ units

By the end of spring 1928, Jimmie Rodgers was beginning to be famous: his first big hit, Blue Yodel was heard all over the country on the radio and in the record shops. With the money he earned from this succes, he bought a new wardrobe and a blue Buick.

1928/07/01

$1,000

(for 250,000 units - 3 mos. Apr-June

It sold more than a million records and became a new rage Six months after the original was recorded, in 1928, there were already covers of the song

averaging $1,000 a month

The singles he recorded in 1928 would reportedly all sell over a million copies

Brakeman’s blues, in a blue yodel vein, was quite a succes with 262.000 pieces sold.

The Springfield News-Leader

Springfield, Missouri

12 Aug 1934, Sun • Page 14

Tired, unshaven, racked, with tuberculosis, he twanged his guitar, sang and yodeled "Sleep, Baby, Sleep." Victor made a record of it. Within a year it sold more than 1,000,000 copies, topping Caruso sales for any single year of his career. Jimmie Rodgers second recording was called "Blue Yodel" So popular did it prove that he followed it with Blue Yodel No 2, then a "No. 3" until he sang 25 of them sold 6,000,000. In all, he made 60 records, sold 20,000,000.

already used here>>>

The News and Observer

Raleigh, North Carolina

08 Dec 1929, Sun • Page 25

The first recording on August 4, 1927 which was to lead Jimmie Rodgers to fame was "Sleep Baby Sleep" and an original number "Soldier Sweetheart." His next recordings were original numbers, "Blue Yodel" and "Way Out on the Mountain." This record went to the top of the Victor sales list and remained there for 14 consecutive weeks. More than 12 million of his records have been sold. He has made about 50 recordings, 13 of which have not yet been released.

Denton Record-Chronicle

Denton, Texas

17 Dec 1929, Tue • Page 8

by Wickes Wamboldt

Twelve millions of his records have been sold. His royalties on these and sheet music, bring him yearly, $75,000

Tillywilly17 (talk) 17:11, 25 April 2022 (UTC)