Talk:Casey Stengel

Birth

It's not clear to me whether Stengel was born in 1890 or 1891. I changed the birth year category to be consistent with the birth date given in the article. Later checking of multiple sources detrmined an 1889 birth year.

You need to give those sources. Otherwise the reliable ones already in place take precedence. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Quotes

There's nothing wrong with this article. I don't know, at this point, who is responsible for it, but it reads just fine. It's interesting and informative. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.209.90.221 (talk)

I do not feel that the quote section is appropriate. I am going to pull the content out. I would ask that if you want to include some of those quotes in the body of the article, that would be more than appropriate. Just make sure you add them with an inline reference. // Tecmobowl 21:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Why do you feel that way? I obviously have a different feeling, which is why I put them in. If you think that they are not appropriate, perhaps it would be better if you put them back in (rather than have us RV each other until we have reached agreement) as you expand upon the basis for your feeling. Reference to Wiki standards would be helpful in this regard. Tx.--Epeefleche 23:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The article is not "enhance" by including this information. It seems more like the section is just being added for the sake of "adding it". Besides, there is wikiquote.org for adding quotes. I think the content would be better suited there. // Tecmobowl 23:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I have a different view, in that I think it is enhanced by including this information. Though if you wish to move it somewhere and link to it, that would be OK with me. For you to simply delete it is, I think, innappropriate where we differ on this. Alternatively, feel free to invite the opinion of others here. Thanks.

--Epeefleche 00:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want to include some of the quotes, i have no problem with that. You can do so by incorporating them into the article in appropriate places. A simple list of quotes, especially one the length you are suggesting, is inappropriate. To further assist you, if you want to do the list, put it here // Tecmobowl 00:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Article Clean-up

This article is in very poor condition. It needs to be ripped apart and completely redone. I pulled out the laundry list of quotes and moved them to wikiquote. It is not that i don't believe they have some merit, however, they were the meat of the article. Wikiquote is around for that specific reason. In the meantime, help would be appreciated. // Tecmobowl 07:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Please take a look at it as of about my last edit, on September 17th, or even as of November 14th. At that time (in my ultra-humble opinion) the quotes helped to tell the story, but I don't think they dominated the article. Then another user started bombarding the article with a bunch of quotes he lifted from another site. Wahkeenah 11:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Although there is no guide that i am aware of that discusses the use of quotes, my general take is that wikiquote.org is in place for just this reason. If the article is significantly enhanced through the use of a quote or two, then that I would say by all means add it. Inline citations are a must IMHO. I think the article has some major problems that need to be resolved before content is reintroduced. Thank you for using the discussion platform, it's one of the nicest things about wiki. I'd like to hear your thoughts. // Tecmobowl 12:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Did you look at the 9/17 or 11/14 versions? And please note, as the article stated, the in-line quotes were all from a single source, a hard-cover biography of Stengel. Wahkeenah 13:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
    • I looked through a few of the past examples, but if you want to provide me the permalinks to those two, I'd certainly give you my thoughts. I did not see an appropriate number of inline citations. I generally think that referencing entire articles to entire sources is in effective. Per WP:CITE#Page_numbers, please provide specific page numbers for specific quotes. If you are unfamiliar with the best way to do that, the WP:CITE article will get you started. // Tecmobowl 17:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
      • I could do that, but before I go to all that effort, I need to know if you're going to rewrite it, or whether an earlier edition of the article looks more acceptable to you. Wahkeenah 17:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
      • "Permalinks" to those two: [1][2] Wahkeenah 17:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
      • With all the discussion that we have done, i am not sure why people want to continue to add content to this article when it is in such poor shape overall. If you feel so strongly that information should be included, please site a source, especially on a quote. Further to the point, make sure it is encyclopedic. // Tecmobowl 18:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
        • I think the article reads pretty well. Wahkeenah 21:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you want to list out what exactly you'd want to change? From looking through the history, it appears that some of the more awkward moments in the article were there from very early on - early 2005 and before. Back that far, from what I've heard, the focus on references was less than it is now - so it's not surprising that matching content and source are difficult. The quotes that are in there now seem to add a nice flair and mostly seem appropriate, esp. given Stengel's quotable reputation. The quotes that were added more recently were way overboard as Wahkeenah said. I agree that it could use some work but I think there's some solid info in here that definitely shouldn't be lost. —Wknight94 (talk) 03:02, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• Tecmo Banned Indefinitely. FYI--Tecmo has been banned indefinitely for repeated violations of Wiki policy.--Epeefleche 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • Dearly beloved, you are so fortunate to have an article that captures Stengel as he was and not as someone might have hoped he was. The article deserves some praise, not come Clorox. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.199.46.159 (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Kranepool not a rookie in 1965

In Stengel's career as Mets manager, I see "Referring to the rookies Ed Kranepool and Greg Goossen in 1965". Kranepool should no longer have been a rookie in 1965; he originally came up in 1962. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.63.16.82 (talk) 18:24, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Can't anybody here play the game?

The article says it was misquoted and implies that one is grammatical and the other is not. However, it looks like some lazy editor thought he or she was fixing a grammatical error and changed the errant sentence and they now both read the same. I began to drudge through the page history, but lost interest, does anybody know what he actually said, "Can't anybody/nobody play this game?", and what was the misquoting? JesseRafe 03:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

• According to The Gospel According to Casey, the original quote was the ungrammatical, "Can't anybody play this here game?" and it was restated by Jimmy Breslin as "Can't anybody here play this game?" which is not quite the same thing, although it doesn't matter all that much. The main point is that Casey wondered if there was even one competent ballplayer on the Mets' roster. Wahkeenah 04:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, thank you. I thought his original was saying the double negative "can't nobody" instead of the "anybody". Especially the fact that this was italicized led me to believe that. I don't think "this here game" is ungrammatical, just a non-standard dialect difference. Thanks again. JesseRafe 08:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

"This here" anything is considered poor usage, like saying "ain't". It is a common expression of the poorly educated (to put it bluntly), and has nothing to do with the Missouri accent. As for the precise wording, I'm going by what that one book said as far as the "anybody/nobody" is concerned. But given that Breslin's book title is a misquote, maybe the misquote was misquoted. Wahkeenah 13:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Colors

It may well be that Casey wasn't very happy about being let go by the Yanks, but that's show biz... most every manager, no matter how successful, gets fired eventually. His greatest successes were with the Yankees, and his Hall of Fame plaque shows him in a Yankees cap. Baseball Bugs 13:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

He was fired by the Yankees and then was hired by the Mets in 1961 prior to their first season. He managed the team for 4 seasons before breaking his hip and then served as a team advisor and ambassador for the next 9 years until his death. He is as much a part of the Mets franchise as the Yankees.

I agree, he was the cornerstone of the Amazin' Mets! 68.173.209.19 14:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The Yankees won seven World Championships under Stengel, and his Hall of Fame plaque has him in a Yankees' cap. Baseball Bugs 14:42, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Big deal - Reggie Jackson's HOF cap shows him in a Yankee cap and he played twice as long in Oakland and won more titles with the A's. Sparky Anderson wears a Reds cap when he managed twice as long in Detroit.

Anderson had two World Series wins in Cincy and one in Detroit. Casey had 7 Series wins in the Bronx and none managing the Mets. Baseball Bugs 18:25, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Your are such an idiot he won all his world series with the Yankees

Precisely. Let's try to keep things civil, though. Don't descend to the level of Mets fans. >:) Baseball Bugs 00:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you f'ing serious? Of course Yankees, he may have done good things with the Mets, but let's number crunch here:

World Series Titles: Yankees: 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1956, 1958

Mets: none

Pennants: Yankees: Include all years above plus 1955, 1957, and 1960

Mets: none

Now, this is from a manager's standpoint. If you think I'm wrong on this, please tell me why. Soxrock 10:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

second nickname

the first paragraph quotes his nickname as "The Old Professor" and then "The Old Perfessor". (the first one, "professor", is the correct spelling of the word, but a nickname might deliberately have the other spelling). I didn't find it in references. Which one is correct? —Isaac Dupree^(talk) 10:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

They both are OK. The media tended to spell it "Perfessor" as a joke. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 13:25, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Strangely, the article makes no mention that Stengel managed the Toledo Mud Hens from 1926-1931. This can be substantiated by doing a wikipedia search on that team name. Musicwriter (talk) 02:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Plaque Photo

The photo whose caption reads, "Monument plaque for Casey Stengel" isn't his plaque in Monument Park, which I assume it was referring to. I've never seen this one. What plaque is that and should I upload a photo of the real one in Monument Park? Delaywaves (talk) 19:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Casey's Platoon System

Not only did Casey use the left-handed/right-handed hitter platoon system extensively, but he also played many players at several positions. In the late 1950s, he had three catchers---Yogi Berra, Elston Howard, & John Blanchard---, all of which played 1st base and outfield as well. 108.15.29.132 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:39, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Warren Spahn's "evaluation"

Humor never hurts an article, and IMLTHO Spahn's quote is too funny AND too much to the point to leave out of this section—along with all the other 'learned' commentary. Tapered (talk) 03:35, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

I've reverted you, not because I disagree, but because it is already in the article! Check under the section where he managed the Braves. Thanks for the good thought. :)--Wehwalt (talk) 04:29, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Oops. Tapered (talk) 08:38, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Coach at Ole Miss in 1914?

@Wehwalt:Was looking through the U. of Mississippi baseball media guide (2018) https://s3.amazonaws.com/olemisssports.com/documents/2018/3/5/_ole_m_basebl_2017_18_misc_non_event__2018-baseball-media-guide.pdf and saw a blurb about Stengel having coached at Ole Miss for one season, 1914. He is quoted about this on page 89. On page 104, he is listed as coach for that season.BillVol (talk) 16:18, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

I would have no objection to something being added. My recollection was he was only there for a few weeks.--Wehwalt (talk) 15:56, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Maybe someone else will do it. I don't want to screw up what you all have going on. If no one does it after a while, I'll take a stab at it.BillVol (talk) 16:18, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Added something.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Awards and honors

Not sure if this merits mentioning here or somewhere else, but the Casey Stengel Bus Depot near the former Shea Stadium was renamed for Stengel on August 16, 1992. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:53, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm sure that Case would appreciate that both the depot and he were always stuck in the mud and he'd hope his name on it would let him make a quick escape as a manager sometimes needs to, but I think it's best not to mention it in the article.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:22, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Casey at the Bat

i realize the poem long predated him, but what are the odds that the one real-life player named "Casey" would end up on a team with "Mud-" in the name?!

was there any trend in media of the time to quote the poem in ref to him? calling him "The Mighty Casey" or using headlines like "No Joy in Mudhenville"?

i think a sizeable number of modern fans assume the poem was written ABOUT him! 2601:19C:527F:A660:E023:67FB:35B5:2DED (talk) 02:06, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

A newspaper.com search shows that any number of sportswriters fell for the temptation to associate Stengel with the Mudville slugger. I don't recall, in reading the biographies, any particular association between the two Caseys tied to his time with the Mud Hens, but he certainly wasn't averse with being viewed as so old he came from the roots of baseball. The greatest association between Stengel and the poem seems to be from when he hit the two home runs in the 1923 World Series. Search is here.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

poem wiki mentions the relationship:

Casey_at_the_Bat#Sequels

Casey_at_the_Bat#Names

i think this wiki should do likewise in the other direction.

concur? 2601:19C:527F:A660:E87A:DAFB:9D8:51B (talk) 11:15, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

As you may notice, this is a featured article. We would need a high-quality reliable source showing that there's a significant connection.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:05, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

you're saying the sources in the other wiki don't pass muster?

i was just basically gonna copy what's over there to here. 2601:19C:527F:A660:C8C0:4FA8:34EC:2C34 (talk) 22:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Really, the only source of consequence is Stengel's autobiography, which is colorful but not necessarily reliable. I would advise checking the several biographies of him, which are a lot more reliable.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:56, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

i'm not gonna do any of that. if the info in the poem article is legit, it needs to be duplicated here. if it is not, we should delete it from that article as well.

my complaint is about it being in one but not the other. 2601:19C:527F:A660:C8C0:4FA8:34EC:2C34 (talk) 00:25, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

What may be worth. including in an article about the poem may not be worth including in an article in a. different project about the man.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:25, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Duplicate sentence

The sentence before the last quote call-out in “Final years and firing…” is duplicated immediately following the call-out. One of them needs to be removed. Merciful (talk) 12:09, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Done. I did not realize someone had split the paragraph and duplicated the sentence. Wehwalt (talk) 13:07, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

Perfect! Merciful (talk) 13:41, 11 June 2023 (UTC)