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Talk:Deportation of undocumented Afghans from Pakistan

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Start an RM to propose renaming after bold moves were reverted

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I disagree with using the incredibly generic non-recognizable official name and with the attempted move to a name which uses "evacuation" (?), and also with "expulsion". —Alalch E. 08:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ainty Painty, EmmaCoop, and Pirate of the High Seas: Just pinging you to make you aware of this comment. Cheers all —Alalch E. 08:43, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 November 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No clear consensus after two relists. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 23:18, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Deportation of undocumented Afghans from PakistanIllegal Foreigners Repatriation Plan – This is a procedural request. Editors have boldly moved to this title, which was opposed. I am starting this RM on their behalf.

In this undiscussed move, User:Ainty Painty moved to "Illegal Foreigners Repatriation Plan" saying: Per official name/plan

After that was reverted, in this undiscussed revert of the revert, User:War Wounded moved again to "Illegal Foreigners Repatriation Plan" saying: Not just Afghans. Their subsequent edit will likely also help understand their rationale: Special:Diff/1183662147 (POV limiting the scope of article, government of Pakistan established a proper plan for undocumented illegal immigrants instead of the expulsion of an particular ethnic-national group)

Prior to the title "Deportation of undocumented Afghans from Pakistan", this article, since its creation on October 7, has had these names:

The current title is also a result of an undiscussed move.—Alalch E. 00:34, 6 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Jenks24 (talk) 10:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans (talk) 19:01, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Pakistan has been notified of this discussion. —Alalch E. 23:58, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Afghanistan has been notified of this discussion. —Alalch E. 23:58, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject International relations has been notified of this discussion. —Alalch E. 23:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Human rights has been notified of this discussion. —Alalch E. 23:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Law has been notified of this discussion. —Alalch E. 23:59, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article almost certainly won't remain a mere explanation of the 'initiative'; I can't imagine that would survive a notability challenge. A proper Wikipedia article on the Pakistani government's mass expulsion of undocumented immigrants will require a lot more fleshing out and non-government perspectives. --Tserton (talk) 19:48, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conclusion withdrawn after new citations and commentary by Tserton. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:22, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the vast majority are Afghans is the reason that the media focuses on them. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 22:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move/Rename Reading the discussion here and at the ITN, most editors are seeing it as an operation aimed at the deportation of illegal immigrants from the country and not just the Afghan refugees. But still, if it's thought that the requested title is government POV, we can go for a neutral title such as Deportation of illegal immigrants from Pakistan.--Ameen Akbar (talk) 16:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That title would be less problematic than simply copying the government's name for the deportations. But almost all reliable sources focus almost exclusively on how the policy affects Afghans. And those that report on the government's motivations for it agree that it is a policy aimed at Afghans, in practice if not in name. Tserton (talk) 20:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That title would be more problematic than copying the official name. An official name can be misleading or biased but might be used anyway simply because it's official and becomes commonly used by others. But if we're going to use a descriptive title that we choose ourselves instead, it should be a "neutral" title. If I understand correctly, many people believe that although the government is saying the program is about "illegal immigrants" in general, it is really focused on Afghans. Also, the phrase "illegal immigrant" is arguably POV itself, since it describes a person as being illegal. Many people object to the idea of a person being illegal. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:10, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The dispute here is a complicated issue and I am not confident that we have found the best title. I would be opposed to simply transcribing the official government name for the policy or at least not without more information in the first part of the lead. The most idealistic solution will be to find something that is neutral. Jorahm (talk) 19:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.