Talk:Dong Cheng (Han dynasty)

Untitled

I finish editing Dong Cheng former White Wave Bandit. Feel free to edit him any time.

Laterzhan281 (talk) 22:42, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Dong Cheng article

COPIED FROM BENJITHEIJNEB'S TALK PAGE

He was originally a subordinate general of Niu Fu during the late Han Dynasty. After Niu Fu was killed by his ally Huchi'er and Emperor Xian escaped the hands of Li Jue and Guo Si, leaving Chang'an for Luoyang in 195, Dong Cheng allied himself with Xu Huang, Zhu Zhi and the White Wave Bandits (led by Han Xian and Yang Feng) to protected the journey of the emperor from the pursuing armies of Li Jue and Guo Si.

In early 199, Dong Cheng claimed to have received a secret edict issued by Emperor Xian (hidden in a belt), and he entered into a conspiracy with Liu Bei, Zhong Ji (种輯), and Wang Fu (王服) to assassinate Cao. But in 200, Dong Cheng's conspiracy was discovered, and Dong Cheng, along with Zhong Ji and Wang Fu, were executed and their families were exterminated - this included Emperor Xian's pregnant consort, Dong Cheng's daughter, who was killed despite the emperor's attempt to intercede. Liu Bei was later defeated by Cao Cao and forced to flee to Yuan Shao's territory.

I comments. Just comments. Niu Fu was killed by his ally Huchi'er in not important. Why should a death of Niu Fu is added to Dong Cheng page? And Niu Fu and Huchier are not allies. One is another's subornidate. And Niu Fu did not died in 195. Therefore the sentence is incorrect. Furthermore death of NiuFu has nothing to do with the escapement of Emperor Xian. Therefore they sould not exist in a single sentence.

Fact A: Dong Cheng aided Emperor, Fact B: Dong Cheng allied to white bandits to protect Empeor. FOr these two facts, Fact B is missleading because here whether or not DOng cheng allied someone is NOT IMPORTANT. The most important thing is the fact that Dong CHeng escorted emperor. What method DOng cheng choused to protect Emperor is NOT important. Further more, Thgought Yang Feng was once a white bandit, at those time Yang Feng was a general of Li Jue. And Zhu Zhi? Who is it? And further more if Yang Feng and Han XIan was to included in the DOng Cheng article, why Zhang Yang and other barbarian tribes and others are excluded? And Xu Huang was a general of Yang Feng, then why should mere a gneral, should be inserted?

Just my comments. (Gauge00 (talk) 16:08, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

To answer your questions:

• I pulled the two lines into a single paragraph because they refer to one distinct period in Wang Can's life: his unremarkable service under Liu Biao. I've made this distinction because of the uneventful nature of this service, rather than the time period.
• In terms of saving storage space, I believe that the Wikimedia Foundation is not facing any problems with the storage space of their articles. IF they had an issue with storage, they would probably post guidelines for preserving their storage space for the general editing public to use. Since they haven't, I don't think you need to worry about minimising the storage space used.
• The details surrounding Niu Fu's death are important because the article did not previously state how or why Dong Cheng had gone to aid the emperor - in this case, I have amended it to explain Niu Fu's assassination by Huchi'er. Corrections for the date of Niu Fu's death and Huchi'er's status in comparison to Niu Fu can and should be made, and I will do so after this response is finished.
• The reasoning for mentioning that the White Wave Bandits were involved is that it was a concerted effort between Dong Cheng and the allies involved; while individuals such as Yufuluo opposed Li Jue and Guo Si, they did not make any effort to help protect the emperor. The bandits, by contrast, actively coordina. In this, you are correct in pointing out that Zhang Yang should be included; again,I will add this immediately.
• I have included Yang Feng because he had abandoned Li Jue in favour of supporting Han Xian at this time. Zhu Zhi refers to the general who left Zhang Ji's service for the White Wave Bandits, then served under Yuan Shu, Lu Bu and Yuan Shu again. I have noticed that this Zhu Zhi lacks an article, as he is a different Zhu Zhi to the one who serves under Wu during the Three Kingdoms period. I will change the link to create a dead one, which I will turn into a separate article when possible. Since Xu Huang is a notable figure in the Later Han and Three Kingdoms periods, I think he should be mentioned, but I will clarify that he is Yang Feng's subordinate.

I will now go make the adjustments to Dong Cheng's article, as you suggested. Benjitheijneb (talk) 17:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

In terms of saving storage space, I believe that the Wikimedia Foundation is not facing any problems with the storage space of their articles. IF they had an issue with storage, they would probably post guidelines for preserving their storage space for the general editing public to use. Since they haven't, I don't think you need to worry about minimising the storage space used.

I HAVE NEVER said to you about storage problems about of wikipedia. Why you are talking about the storage problem? (Gauge00 (talk) 17:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

You said that He was originally a subordinate general of Niu Fu during the late Han Dynasty, but this service ended after Niu Fu was killed by his subordinate Huchi'er in 192, then your sentence could be shorten to He was a general of Fiu Fu, and his service was ended after Niu Fu was killed by his subordinate. Then you said his subordinte, then what means? "Dong Cheng's subordinate"?, if not "Niu Fu's subordinate"? You made an ambiguity. I suspect your native lanauge is not Enlish. (Gauge00 (talk) 17:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

What on earch Zhu Zhi (Later Han) is? What is his name in chinese? (Gauge00 (talk) 17:46, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

You said that Niu Fu's death are important because the article did not previously state how or why Dong Cheng had gone to aid the emperor , then you seem to think that Dong Cheng must be shot dead when he left Niu Fu before the death of Niu Fu? Emperor Xian could not summon the Dong Cheng in the middle of the service under the Niu Fu? (Gauge00 (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

Let's visit http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/董承, there you could NOT find the story about death of Niu Fu (牛輔). Do you think that japanese are originally so stupid that they could not tell the story of the death of Niu Fu in Dong Cheng page? (Gauge00 (talk) 17:55, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

You made another false statement that Yang Feng because he had abandoned Li Jue in favour of supporting Han Xian at this time. Yang Feng was a yellow turban bandit, then he served Li Jue. Afterwards he tried to assassinate the Li Jue but failed, and FLED. The reason why Yang Feng left Li Jue has no relations with Han Xian. He just became a bandit which he was. (Gauge00 (talk) 18:04, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

Yang Feng left Li Jue. He joined Han Xian. Can you accept that much?
The fact remains that Dong Cheng was NOT summoned by the emperor while under Niu Fu's service; he was summoned after the latter had died. Hence why Niu Fu's death should be mentioned.
The Japanese Wikipedia SHOULD mention Niu Fu's death, because it IS relevent to Dong Cheng. So yes, I DO think it's stupid, and if you are capable enough with Japanese, I would strongly suggest that you change it.
The ambiguity exists because of the awkwardness of the English language - "Niu Fu was killed by Niu Fu's subordinate Huchi'er" is an unconventional English construction.
I will reword this, but you should not even dare to criticise MY English capability. For someone who has repeatedly affirmed that you have a poor grasp on English, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to mock anyone else's English capability. I am a native speaker of English living in the United Kingdom, and your moronic assumptions about my so-called "poor-English" will not be tolerated; continue, and I will take you to the admins again. Benjitheijneb (talk) 18:12, 25 August 2012 (UTC) PS. Zhu Zhi is mentioned as a subordinate of Zhang Ji; I have yet to find information about him, and will do so when I can. Benjitheijneb (talk) 18:14, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

As you said, no history book said that Dong Cheng was summoned by the emperor while under Niu Fu's service. HOWEVER it does not mean Dong Cheng was not summoned by Emperor while under Niu Fu. The fact that No book said that I am foolish does not means I am not foolish. (Gauge00 (talk) 18:24, 25 August 2012 (UTC))

The only notable summon mentioned by historical texts was to aid the Emperor's escape, after Niu Fu's death. If there WAS another summon (which was possible, seeing his relation to the Emperor's concubine), it was not of considerable note to be recorded; and Wikipedia cannot provide accounts of imperial summons which were not recorded in the first place. Benjitheijneb (talk) 15:51, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Niu Fu was killed by Huchier circa May 192, and Dong Cheng helped and escorted Emperor circa July, 195. There exists three year gaps between two events. There is no single historical account on what Dong Cheng did during these three years in history books. Therefore you should not assume that Dong Cheng served Emperor after the death of Niu Fu. (Gauge00 (talk) 16:19, 26 August 2012 (UTC))

Dong Cheng article's talkpage

I moved portion of the above discussion into Yang Feng article's talkpage. And I think you guys should break the flow of discussion regarding different aspects of an entity or different entities into manageable chunks, so other readers can better look into whatsoever being discussed.--EkmanLi (talk) 10:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

I am very disappointed at your addition of Dong Cheng. Your addition itself is good, however, as you did add and correct Dong Cheng, we have lost a good opportunity to check the abilities and knowledges about Dong Cheng of Benjitheijneb. Now I am very surprised by the fact that Zhu Zhi was now created by Benjitheijneb. We could not find Zhu Zhi at List of people of the Three Kingdoms, However Dong Cheng page contains his name. I am waiting the day Benjitheijneb makes Zhu Zhi. It seems that he transfered the reposibility of creating the Zhu Zhi to others. (Gauge00 (talk) 13:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC))

Please DO NOT remove Zhu Zhi in Dong Cheng page and let's see how Benjitheijneb creat Zhu Zhi. Probably a Hewbrew translation of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Records of the Three Kingdoms contains Zhu Zhi. (Gauge00 (talk) 13:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC))

My aim is to improve the accuracy of the content- if Zhu Zhi should be mentioned, I will not remove the mention; otherwise, I would make appropriate change(s).--EkmanLi (talk) 02:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

There exist lots of pages which contain incorrect information. One example, White Wave Bandits is one of them. Dong Cheng has never been one of its member, however, White Wave Bandits said that Dong Cheng was a White Wave Bandit from 2009 edition. Now the Bandits has a new member Zhu Zhi. Yufuluo is now deleted by the simple reason that Benjitheijneb could not find the relavent information.. I recommend you not to edit Dong Cheng page. Instead you'd better to edit White wave bandits. Look the edit history of Dong Cheng page. Benjitheijneb just visited Dong Cheng page just to hamper and hinder the editions of mine. Let's see a movie scene how a Jews edits Dong Cheng page. Again I am waiting now the day when Benjitheijneb created his Zhu Zhi. If someone shitted his dung on the streets, he should be reported to the police and be charged with petit crime. Why you EkmanLi secretly and gentlely wipe out his dungs of the street? If you are eager to do, I'd like you recommend to do it a month later. Anyway.. you have the right to edit it though. Once again, I'd recommend you analyze the (1) edit histroy of Dong Cheng page and (2) User contributions of Benjitheijneb (Gauge00 (talk) 11:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC))

How about edit the broken links of Incident at Gaoping Tombs instead of Dong Cheng? Benjitheijneb surely would edit Dong Cheng. (Gauge00 (talk) 11:29, 28 August 2012 (UTC))