Talk:Dwarfgate Wars

Participants

The text previously had:

The Dwarfgate Wars was fought between the Hill Dwarves and the Mountain Dwarves living in Thorbardin.

I had replaced it:

The Dwarfgate Wars was fought between the Hill Dwarves formerly tributary to the mountain realm of Thorbardin and the other Dwarves who lived inside it.

My reason: The original text makes it look like the wars were between dwarven types within the mountain. My replacement makes clear that the war was between Hill Dwarves outside and the others inside. Those inside include mountain dwarves and derro.

I am not going to replace this text just yet - but we need a better way to describe the participants in the conflict. -- Zimriel 17:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

The Cataclysm's role in the Wars

I had created:

In 39 AC the Cataclysm's aftermath had been raging through Abanasinia and Dergoth for almost four decades, and had driven the native Neidar dwarves and Plainsmen to the brink of famine.

Ddcc replaced it:

In 39 AC famine had been raging through Abanasinia and Dergoth for almost four decades, and had driven the native Neidar dwarves and Plainsmen to the brink of famine.

This replacement is incoherent: famine drove the people to famine? Although, I will grant that my original text was vague. I have tried to clarify it. -- Zimriel 17:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Plural "Wars"

I proposed that the reason that this conflict is called the "Dwarfgate Wars" is because Krynn historians had posited an initial civil-war stage, in which Fistandantilus fought pro-Thorbardin factions outside the great mountain. These conflicts, as in the way of civil war, descended into the settling of petty scores only tangentially related to Fistandantilus's stated aim (Thorbardin) and his personal aim (Zhaman) - thus, the Deiwar mutiny, Pax Tharkas and Waykeep. Therefore:

It would appear that the Army of Fistandantilus first faced the problem of gaining support among other men and dwarves outside Thorbardin. Gaining that support proved violent, hinting that many men and dwarves (and all elves) initially preferred not to join Fistandantilus in his scheme. Fistandantilus managed to defeat all dissenters outside Thorbardin in this Dwarfgate civil war.

Ddcc removed: "in this Dwarfgate civil war." I've clarified the whole section - in particular to put the events in a more chronological sequence than that of its base text (from the Fistandantilus article). -- Zimriel 17:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Just want to comment on this. The real name for it is the Dwarfgate War, with historians in Dragonlance sometimes mistakenly calling it "Wars". Both are acceptible, but the continuity of it is Dwarfgate War. For references, check any of the Sovereign Press gaming books, or any of the 5th age timelines which state Dwarfgate War. --Kranar drogin 00:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Aftermath

I inserted / adapted this from Dragonlance timeline:

After the conflagration, the dwarf Kharas disappeared with the Hammer of Honor, which was subsequently renamed the Hammer of Kharas. Xak Tsaroth, already heavily damaged by the Cataclysm, was finally abandoned at this time and became a ruin.

Ddcc deleted it. I am reinstating it as an "Aftermath" section. -- Zimriel 17:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Stub

I looked over the page history, I think the article is good enough to remove the stub. What do you think? DoomsDay349 02:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)