Talk:Endless (2020 film)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Endless (2020 film) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Articles for creation

	This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
	This article was accepted from this draft on 27 December 2020 by reviewer Robert McClenon (talk · contribs).

Film: American

	Film portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Film. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please refer to the documentation. To improve this article, please refer to the guidelines.FilmWikipedia:WikiProject FilmTemplate:WikiProject Filmfilm articles
	This article is supported by the American cinema task force.

On 14 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Endless (film). The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Reviewer Note

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Endless (film), which is about a different 2014 film. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:02, 26 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Editors disagreed about whether "The" was sufficient to distinguish this film from The Endless (film); the weight of arguments for each position was comparable, and while slightly more editors supported this move than opposed it this support was not sufficient to establish a consensus.

An alternative proposal, moving The Endless (film) to The Endless (2017 film), was not sufficiently discussed to generate a consensus. A new proposal on that move may do so, but based on the result here it is unlikely. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 13:37, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Endless (2020 film) → Endless (film) – No other films are called just "Endless". The 2017 film is called "The Endless", so I had to request for moving over redirect. 176.88.81.49 (talk) 06:55, 14 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 11:27, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The titles of the two "Endless" films are too similar and it would be more helpful to users if The Endless (film) were to be nominated for a move to The Endless (2017 film), with Endless (film) and The Endless (film) becoming redirects to the Endless disambiguation page. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 00:11, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - we often hold that a/an/the alone are not enough to differentiate films. -- Netoholic @ 04:40, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support – While I'm willing to defer to the aforementioned precedent in the general case, I think the word "The" is sufficient disambiguation here. The phrase "The Endless" nominalizes the adjective "endless" – thus converting it to a noun – whereas the movie Endless just uses the adjective as its title. In my view, this part-of-speech difference reduces the risk of confusion among readership. (Finally, I would be remiss not to mention that WP:SMALLDETAILS supports the proposed title if there isn't a consensus otherwise.) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:11, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per ModernDayTrilobite. The titles are different enough that the year disambiguator seems unnecessary, a hatnote at both pages should suffice. -- Wikipedical (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:SMALLDETAILS. InfiniteNexus (talk) 01:19, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:SMALLDETAILS. Nardog (talk) 01:32, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:SMALLDETAILS: The general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for. Disambiguators "(2020 film)" and "(2017 film)" guide the readers as swiftly as possible; small detail of having a "the" in front does not – actually, I bet that hardly anybody remembers if there's a "the" in front. Instead, move the other one to The Endless (2017 film). No such user (talk) 08:32, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That presupposes readers are aware of the other movie when looking up either. They aren't. You only type the name of the thing you're looking up because you don't (and can't) know what other notable things of the same name exist. Whenever a reader runs into a dab page, it's an unmet expectation. The vast majority of readers have a specific thing in mind when they type in the search box. The only problem is that not everyone typing the same query are looking up the same thing, and only then does disambiguation become necessary. We can always use hatnotes. The fewer readers are sent to a dab page, the less they have to type inside parentheses, the better. Nardog (talk) 15:27, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well no, I made no such presumption. But I disagree that arriving at a dab page amounts to an unmet expectation – rather, it's landing at an entirely wrong page, which may be the result of insufficiently PRECISE and RECOGNIZABLE titles.
Note that a reader arrives to the desired page through one of 1) wikilink (no problem) 2) dab page (no problem either) 3) external search engine (aka Google) which typically does provide some minimum context to distinguish things and 4) Wikipedia search bar, which is the problematic one. Assuming the reader wants a recent film called "Endless", they will type "Endless" (probably without a "the") and examine the first round of results. At that point we need to provide enough context to disambiguate things. Currently, mobile and Vector 2022 search functions do provide short descriptions, so the title issue becomes moot; but then, the 2017 film is not anywhere near the top results. No such user (talk) 16:49, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the opposers above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:15, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose topics called "The X" are normally ambiguous with just "X" even if the reverse isn't true per WP:SMALLDETAILS. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:23, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. A similar topic {Valiant (film) / Valiant (2005 film)} is currently under discussion at Talk:Valiant (film)#Requested move 20 February 2023. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:06, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support WP:SMALLDETAILS ultimately wins out here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:31, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.