Talk:Eryholme–Richmond branch line

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Route problems

Hi, I was trying to add initial infoboxes and co-ordinates to the station articles but there appears to be some stations with dubious information against them.

On the branch line I can find no reference to Dalton Gates, the nearest I can find is Dalton Junction which was a former name for Eryholme. Moulton End appears just to be called Moulton and Brompton-on-Swale looks to be called Catterick Bridge in material I have looked at.

The sub-branch is a little more tricky as Butt and Wignall do not appear to cover the line though it is shown on maps and Suggitt gives details of it. It looks like it had 3 stations - Catterick, which is at the start of the line almost adjacent to Catterick Bridge. Catterick Camp, Central or Camp Central depending on the map you look at and a short lived station called California which I have not located the position for.

Has anyone any other information or comments on this before I go and change the article and move the station articles? Keith D (talk) 18:40, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moulton End was definitely called Moulton End, I have a photo of the station sign somewhere, I will attempt to find it. King of the North East 00:17, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Diagram

I have replaced the sidebar with a diagram that includes only the stations I can find on OS maps and in Jowett's, named as they are there. If anyone finds sources for the existence of stations (particularly any intermediate ones on the camp branch) I may have left out the usual rules apply. I have moved the sidebar here to keep a record of it to help anyone add such stations. Britmax (talk) 18:53, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Books and Maps

A.J.Ludlam, (1993). The Catterick Camp Military Railway and the Richmond Branch. The Oakwood Press.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) ISBN 0 85361 438 5

Having obtained a copy of the above book I have altered the names of the station on the line in accordance with the information in it, backed up by OS maps and other map sources. The stations are now all verified as existing. And the junction of the camp branch faced Richmond. Britmax (talk) 23:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 September 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Eryholme–Richmond branch line be renamed and moved somewhere else, with the name being decided below.

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Links: current log

Eryholme–Richmond branch line → ? – Either Richmond branch or Richmond branch line – The line does not have any reliable references calling it Eryholme–Richmond branch line. Plenty of Mirrors and those who have used the name of the article in their webpages.^[1]^[2] The railway was built in 1845 when the junction with the East Coast Main Line was Dalton Junction. This was re-named in 1901 to Eryholme Junction,^[3] so by way of comparison, for the first 56 years of its existence, it would not have been called the Eryholme–Richmond branch line. There are different names, but those that state just Richmond branch with a lower case 'b' are:

^[4]^[5]^[6]^[7]^[8]^[9]^[10]^[11]^[12]^[13] The North Eastern Railway Civil Engineering Drawings List held at the National Railway Museum, has 22 references to Richmond, 17 of which state Richmond Branch (both capitalised), and others stating Richmond to Darlington, or Richmond to Eryholme.^[14]
Just Richmond Branch Railway:^[15]^[12]
Hansard refers to the the line when it was under threat of closure as the Darlington–Richmond Line.^[16]

References

^ "Eryholme–Richmond branch line". TriplyDB: The Network Effect for Your Data. Retrieved 13 September 2024.
^ "A Walk to Easby Abbey » Two Dogs and an Awning". Two Dogs and an Awning. 2 October 2015. Retrieved 13 September 2024.
^ Hoole, Kenneth (1985). Railway stations of the North East. Newton Abbot: David and Charles. p. 65. ISBN 0-7153-8527-5.
^ Body, Geoffrey (1989). Railways of the Eastern Region volume 2. Wellingborough: Patrick Stephens. p. 68. ISBN 1-85260-072-1.
^ Haigh, A. (1979). Yorkshire railways: including Cleveland and Humberside. Clapham: Dalesman Books. p. 24. ISBN 0-85206-553-1.
^ Young, Alan (2015). Lost stations of Yorkshire; the North and East Ridings. Kettering: Silver Link. p. 33. ISBN 978-1-85794-453-2.
^ Hoole, Kenneth (1985). Railway stations of the North East. Newton Abbot: David and Charles. p. 48. ISBN 0-7153-8527-5.
^ Suggitt, Gordon (2007). Lost railways of North and East Yorkshire. Newbury: Countryside Books. p. 46. ISBN 978-1-85306-918-5.
^ Burgess, Neil (2011). The Lost Railway's of Yorkshire's North Riding. Catrine: Stenlake. p. 13. ISBN 9781840335552.
^ Blakemore, Michael (2005). Railways of the Yorkshire Dales. Ilkley: Great Northern. p. 54. ISBN 1-905080-03-4.
^ "RID mileages". railwaycodes.org.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024.
^ ^a ^b Lloyd, Chris (1 July 2017). "90 years ago three million people headed north by rail to witness one of the biggest events of the year - a total eclipse of the sun". The Northern Echo. Retrieved 13 September 2024.
^ Shannon, Paul (2023). Branch Line Britain. Barnsley: Pen & Sword. p. 127. ISBN 978-1-39908-990-6.
^ "North Eastern Railway Civil Engineering Drawings List" (PDF). railwaymuseum.org.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024. Various pages - use the search function for Richmond
^ "List of North Yorkshire & North Riding plans of railway lines..." (PDF). archivesunlocked.northyorks.gov.uk. p. 5. Retrieved 13 September 2024.
^ "Darlington-Richmond Line (Closure) Volume 774: debated on Wednesday 4 December 1968". hansard.parliament.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:03, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Middleton Press haven't yet published a book on the branch, nor even one about the main line through Eryholme.

The authorising Act of Parliament (8 & 9 Vict. cap. cii of 21 July 1845) had a short title of "Great North of England and Richmond Railway Act 1845", naming the railway as the Great North of England and Richmond Railway. Unfortunately, the PDF copy of the printed Act hasn't yet been scanned and uploaded. The index entry may be seen at Google Books. Tomlinson, in

Tomlinson, William Weaver; Hoole, Ken (1967) [1915]. Tomlinson's North Eastern Railway: Its Rise and Development. Newton Abbot: David & Charles.

refers on pp. 463-4 to a line (not branch) "from Cooper House near Dalton to Richmond (93⁄4 miles)"; and on p. 473 to lines opened in 1846, including "the Richmond Branch on the 10th September". So we still have two choices, but a different two: Great North of England and Richmond Railway and Richmond Branch. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 13:31, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Richmond branch or Richmond branch line, or leave it. – It seems clear that this branch does not have a proper name, so a conventional descriptive title is in order. Red's proposal to name it after the authorizing act seems peculiar, and "Richmond Branch" is not consistently capitalized in sources. Both of the proposed names are found that way in books. Dicklyon (talk) 16:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not proposing to name it after the Act (Great North of England and Richmond Railway Act 1845), but after the railway name as given in the long title of Act (An Act to enable the Great North of England Railway Company to make a Branch Railway, to be called "The Great North of England and Richmond Railway," in the County of York.), i.e. the part between the quotes omitting the definite article and italics. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'd prefer a commonname. Dicklyon (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Richmond branch or Richmond Branch has a number of inbound red links for multiple railway lines in the United States. If we're going the descriptive route and avoiding eventual disambiguation then Eryholme–Richmond line would be best, omitting "branch" as it's not necessary. Mackensen (talk) 11:51, 19 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We should be guided by the sources and go with a commonname, like Dicklyon states above. No doubt the American Richmond branches/lines etc have more Google hits than the one in England, and if so, we can disambiguate. I am more than happy to remove redlinks from anything stateside as having the redlinks when the project (Wikipedia) was in its infancy was helpful, less so now where we can trim things down, no? Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 08:33, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, if there are a lot of red links to a specific Richmond Branch in the U.S., we shouldn't be removing these links. Per WP:REDLINK, red links may be added if the subject is notable and verifiable; it isn't relevant whether these links were added when WP was in its infancy or whether they were added later. If there are enough red links, the subject is most likely notable, which means these links do still serve a purpose (i.e. pointing out the fact that a notable subject doesn't have an article).
This probably indicates, however, that these existing red links need to be changed. For example, there are several links to a Richmond branch in Pennsylvania, so these can be changed to Richmond Branch (Pennsylvania). – Epicgenius (talk) 14:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Trains, WikiProject UK Railways, and WikiProject Yorkshire have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 04:03, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Eryholme–Richmond branch line". TriplyDB: The Network Effect for Your Data. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

[2] "A Walk to Easby Abbey » Two Dogs and an Awning". Two Dogs and an Awning. 2 October 2015. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

[3] Hoole, Kenneth (1985). Railway stations of the North East. Newton Abbot: David and Charles. p. 65. ISBN 0-7153-8527-5.

[4] Body, Geoffrey (1989). Railways of the Eastern Region volume 2. Wellingborough: Patrick Stephens. p. 68. ISBN 1-85260-072-1.

[5] Haigh, A. (1979). Yorkshire railways: including Cleveland and Humberside. Clapham: Dalesman Books. p. 24. ISBN 0-85206-553-1.

[6] Young, Alan (2015). Lost stations of Yorkshire; the North and East Ridings. Kettering: Silver Link. p. 33. ISBN 978-1-85794-453-2.

[7] Hoole, Kenneth (1985). Railway stations of the North East. Newton Abbot: David and Charles. p. 48. ISBN 0-7153-8527-5.

[8] Suggitt, Gordon (2007). Lost railways of North and East Yorkshire. Newbury: Countryside Books. p. 46. ISBN 978-1-85306-918-5.

[9] Burgess, Neil (2011). The Lost Railway's of Yorkshire's North Riding. Catrine: Stenlake. p. 13. ISBN 9781840335552.

[10] Blakemore, Michael (2005). Railways of the Yorkshire Dales. Ilkley: Great Northern. p. 54. ISBN 1-905080-03-4.

[11] "RID mileages". railwaycodes.org.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

[CL-12] Lloyd, Chris (1 July 2017). "90 years ago three million people headed north by rail to witness one of the biggest events of the year - a total eclipse of the sun". The Northern Echo. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

[13] Shannon, Paul (2023). Branch Line Britain. Barnsley: Pen & Sword. p. 127. ISBN 978-1-39908-990-6.

[14] "North Eastern Railway Civil Engineering Drawings List" (PDF). railwaymuseum.org.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024. Various pages - use the search function for Richmond

[15] "List of North Yorkshire & North Riding plans of railway lines..." (PDF). archivesunlocked.northyorks.gov.uk. p. 5. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

[16] "Darlington-Richmond Line (Closure) Volume 774: debated on Wednesday 4 December 1968". hansard.parliament.uk. Retrieved 13 September 2024.

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