Talk:Faust (comics)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Faust (comics) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Comics: United States Low‑importance

	Comics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Comics, a collaborative effort to build an encyclopedic guide to comics on Wikipedia. Get involved! If you would like to participate, you can help with the current tasks, visit the notice board, edit the attached article or discuss it at the project's talk page.ComicsWikipedia:WikiProject ComicsTemplate:WikiProject ComicsComics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by United States comics work group.

Horror Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Horror, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to fictional horror in film, literature and other media on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.HorrorWikipedia:WikiProject HorrorTemplate:WikiProject Horrorhorror articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Fair use rationale for Image:Faust1.jpg

Image:Faust1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 3 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Faust (Avatar Press) be renamed and moved to Faust (comics).

result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Closure requested <permalink>. Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 08:51, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move logs: current title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Result:
Moved per consensus garnered below. Closure requested <permalink>. Thanks and kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Editing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth - ed. ^put'r there 08:51, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Faust (Avatar Press) → Faust (comics) – The current Faust (comics) page is a disambiguation page which needlessly duplicates comic-based information from the Faust (disambiguation) page. Furthermore, the Faust (Avatar Press) page concerns the only comic to be specifically titled Faust (or to even include a character strictly known by that name), as all the other disambiguation instances are related uses (such as Faust being the character's last name). The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 09:30, 3 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:29, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Horror has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:30, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Comics has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 20:31, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Faust (manga) is clearly a comic, and found on the main disambiguation page. Instead the "comics" disambiguation page should just redirect to the main disambiguation page. -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 22:27, 13 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
With respect, it should be clarified that you just added the manga Faust to the page. Either which way, it is my understanding that only two entries with acceptably different parenthetical names — like these — should use Distinguish and not require a disambiguation page. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 19:50, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I stated, it is found on the main disambiguation page (Faust (disambiguation)). Are you saying that Japanese comics are not comics? Because I disagree with that statement. The Avatar Press topic is not the only topic with its own article, thus it is ambiguouus and should not be using ambiguous disambiguation. Disambiguation is supposed to be unambiguous, and the proposal just makes it ambiguous. -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 02:52, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies, I did not understand your main disambiguation page remark. No offense was intended. And of course I acknowledge manga as comics, but Wikipedia naming conventions don't seem to see the two mutually exclusive (see Batman (comic book), Batman (comic strip), and Batman (manga) as an example). My intention was that, based on my understanding, if one title was Faust (manga) and another was Faust (comics) then all they require is a Template:Distinguish between them to overcome ambiguousness, as opposed to having a full comic-based disambiguation page (which nothing on the main space links to except one page that mistakenly linked to it thinking it was the currently Avatar Press page). The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 09:58, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was re-reading our exchange here, which I appreciate you taking the time to participate in, and realized there was a misunderstanding that I did not address. You are coming from the stance that (comics) indicates a disambiguation, as in all comics sharing a title, when — to the best of my knowledge— this is not the case. The (comics) parenthetical denotes a singular series of comic books, as seen on pages like The Boys (comics), The Dark Tower (comics), and Eternals (comics), which is why I feel it is appropriate for the page currently titled Faust (Avatar Press) — which needs to be changed regardless, as it is overcategorized towards one of three publishers.

What currently exists at Faust (comics) is a content fork for Faust (disambiguation) and an unncessary one, since — as I pointed out above— nothing on the main (Article) space links to (nor should anything). This page's title is currently ambiguous by Wikipedia naming conventions (as per my previous paragraph) and should be more akin to something like List of comics based on fiction, though it would still be an unnecessary content fork. I look forward to reading your reply/thoughts. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 12:21, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why I said that the "Faust (comics)" page should redirect to the main disambiguation page ( Faust (disambiguation) ) -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 03:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As for what the disambiguator "(comics)" is used for, it should be clear to anyone who is not a WikiGnome, and an ordinary reader, that something with "(comics)" should refer to something about comics, and not some subset of that that excludes many comics-worldly topics. The "(comics)" disambiguator as it is currently used appears on many fictional character articles, as they originate from comics, so it isn't just used on a singular series of comic books. Comics once were published in newspaper comics pages, and then collected in comic books, you can see such collections for Family Circle or Calvin and Hobbes. The Japanese comic book Faust was a serial publication and collected in a singular tankobon (collected volume). -- 65.92.246.142 (talk) 03:06, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
IF you review Wikipedia:Naming conventions (comics)#Disambiguation, you'll see that using (comics) for character disambiguation is incorrect. Argento Surfer (talk) 13:00, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - manga is a specific type of publication, which is why Manga doesn't redirect to Comic book and why Faust (manga) isn't "Faust (Fuji Shobo)". People familiar enough with manga to search for it won't be calling it a comic. On the off chance they do, a hat note will get them on target. Argento Surfer (talk) 15:41, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Argento Surfer. Dronebogus (talk) 06:01, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ Support — Recommendation changed due to Argento Surfer's comment below; my initial reasoning kept for egg-on-my-face posterity. This issue is a tad convoluted, so I'll aim to balance brevity and informativeness in explaining my reasoning.
The (comics) parenthetical is strictly intended for disambiguation use, as per WikiProject Comics' naming conventions. Thus Faust (comics) remains a valid name for what it is. As this page does include both characters and publications, it could use either (comics) or (character), but there doesn't seem to be a need to change it.
As for the current usefulness of Faust (comics), I concur that there isn't much of one. It's currently a simple fork. But it could be expanded to be a worthwhile disambiguation page. It's missing Frau Faust completely and Related/See Also entries for the likes of Deals with the Devil in popular culture could be added. So Faust (comics) should either be expanded or set as a redirect, either to Faust (disambiguation) or Works based on Faust.
As for Faust (Avatar Press), the OP is correct that this parenthetical name is misleading as it implies only one of three publishers. As per WikiProject Comics' naming conventions, the request should be Faust (Avatar Press) → Faust (comic book) (which anyone can be bold and just do). I know that it's a series of limited series and thus a plural parenthetical feels more appropriate, but that's not the accepted naming convention.
In a related (but undiscussed) point, Faust: Love of the Damned should be moved: Faust: Love of the Damned → Faust: Love of the Damned (film). The first ("main") limited series of Faust (Avatar Press) was Faust: Love of the Damned and thus that specific name should redirect (marked with potential) to whatever Faust (Avatar Press) becomes.
It has been eight years since I edited anything on Wikipedia (I can't believe this is what finally caused me to break my silence), but I have kept appraised of rules and whatnot so I think everything above is accurate by currently accepted conventions. hornoir (talk) 11:29, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Hornoir: I think you may have misunderstood that section of the NC, as (comics) is not set aside solely for disambiguation pages. The relevant bullet point reads "Articles primarily about a publication should use the phrase (comics)." Argento Surfer (talk) 12:57, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Argento Surfer: Ohhhhhhhh… Wow, that's horribly worded on naming conventions for comics page. Having re-read it a couple of times carefully, I now realize that the #Disambiguation section is a general parenthetical disambiguation notation and not a disambiguation page specific thing. So, yes, I was completely wrong and am changing my recommendation accordingly — especially since the current Faust (comics) is an unnecessary content fork. hornoir (talk) 13:37, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Closure request filed. Please see: Wikipedia:Closure requests#Talk:Faust (Avatar_Press)#Requested move 3 March_2022. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 14:52, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested change of citation style

The following is a closed discussion for a consensus to change citation style/method. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. Editors desiring to contest this discussion's closed decision should do so in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

After 7 days without opposition, this request has accepted by default.

I am interested in working on this article extensively, but I would first like to seek permission to change the citation style currently employed on it. As I will be adding numerous new citations, and as thus to avoid inline clutter, I would like to use list-definted references and short citations, specifically Harvard-style referencing. To keep things consistent, I'd obviously update the existing citations to this style as well. Please express any opposition below. Thank you. The Ghost of Art Toys Past (talk) 09:42, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support I'm totally into helping work on this article (as well as Tim Vigil & David Quinn (writer)) and list-defined references & short citations are fine with me. I just want to get this article into "fighting shape" before the new Sony animation hits — assuming it actually ever does. hornoir (talk) 05:49, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.