Talk:Flag of Japan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Top Importance

This article shouldn't really be rated top importance unless everyone agrees, so I down graded it for the moment. MightyAtom 07:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I was the one who put it at the top-rated, since, IMHO, national symbols should be top rated in national wikiprojects. I also asked the WPJ permission to make it a top importance. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 13:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Flag book

I am getting a flag book from Japan from Japanese vexillologist Nozomi Kariyasu that was authored by him. I am going to see if that book will have information that could be of use for the article. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

merge tagging

I have tagged the list to be merged into this article, as most of the information is overlapping and would be more accessible here. Chris 04:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I support it. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 04:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I also support it - the List of... article adds nothing. Number 57 16:49, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - If you look at the template at the bottom of List of Japanese flags (Template:Lists of flags), you will see that most large countries a separate pages for their flags - one for the national flag, and the other for all other flags (including sub-divisions). The list article should have all of the prefectures listed with their flags - to mirror other countries flags pages and to add additional content unique from Flag of Japan. I think this was the purpose of "List of Japanese flags", but was never fully implemented. I will begin to populate the prefecture flags. I think that the "Imperial" and "Prefectural" sections of this article should be moved, but will hold off until after this discussion. --Scott Alter 02:04, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Oppose for the same reason Scott said. I posted on the Wikiproject Japan page about my suggestion to addd the prefecture flags. But as for the sections of the article to be removed, I would just remove some illusrations for now until we beef up the article, since my intent is make this featured somehow. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Most of the content on this page is better suited for List of Japanese flags, which is what I think should be moved. As I see it, this article should be about the one Flag of Japan - the Nisshōki (日章旗 "sun flag")/Hinomaru (日の丸 "sun disc"). Everything else belongs on the list page. Unfortunately, there is only the introduction that is relevant to the national flag, so moving everything to the other page would leave little here. I'm not sure which content you want to beef up, but I think the list article would be more appropriate to try to feature (since I think you want to feature the variety of Japanese flags, rather than the one national flag). Maybe the list article should be renamed Flags of Japan if you want to have explanatory text in addition to the images. This schema would then parallel Flags of the United States and Flags of Germany. --Scott Alter 07:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

We need more content about the Japanese flag, but we can describe about historical flags or other kinds of flags; but a move of this article would be out of the question in my view. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 17:38, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean moving the article. I just think that the content of the Prefecture and Municipal sections of Flag of Japan belong in List of Japanese flags and not here. The Prefecture and Municipal flags are not the "Flag of Japan". They are Flags of Japan, that belong in List of Japanese flags. --Scott Alter 17:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Kind of on the subject

I've done some data shuffling between Flag of Japan and List of Japanese flags.

• Organized Flag of Japan so it keeps the description of each category of flag with an image example, and a pointer to List of Japanese flags which have the lists.
• Merged the prefectural tables.
  • No use in having a table on each page.
  • Some flags had a newer SVG version, used those. Will ask Wikipedia:Graphic Lab to SVGize the rest if they have the time.
  • Kept/added some descriptions.
• Added municipal list of flags/symbols... Not all of em are there, just some major cities.

Also, I'm opposed to the merge and suggest Flag of Japan be renamed to Flags of Japan. That about covers it. --LeoNomis 11:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

You got your graphic lab right here :)Anyways, I plan on making more images of Japanese flags (including the Z flag, which from what I heard from Japanese vexillologists, it is a popular flag). However, some of the changes you made to the article, I will revert back. The first section was our leading paragraph, along with the image. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 19:26, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Passed

I have passed this article's GA because I feel it fulfills the GA criteria. It's a complete article and interesting to read. Suggestions for the future - more in-line cites never hurt anyone. Cheers, Corvus coronoides _talk 20:06, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Good article reassessment of article (may lose GA status)

Hello, see my comment immediately above this one, then read my lengthy comments at Good article reassessment. I'm truly sorry — I just can't in good conscience allow the GA to stand uncontested, with so much crucial information omitted. I will be happy to retract the GAR if all info (properly sourced!) is added. Ling.Nut 12:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Work with me and all of the issues will be solved. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 21:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I commented at WP:GAR, but let me elaborate on my point. I think there is confusion as to the distinction between the "flag of Japan" and "Hinomaru and "flags in Japan". This article is, in its current state, about the latter. I was a bit surprised to find that the article talks about imperial flag, subnational flags, etc. So, what should we do? One solution would be to create an article entitled Symbolism in Japan or something where the stuff in the article that is tangentially related to flag of Japan can be put. In any rate, the focus of the article is a problem, it seems to me. -- Taku 22:22, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The ja article corresponding to this one contains (if brief) mention of the use of Flag of Japan by right-wing activists or perception of the flag in Asian countries. So, I guess those points can be used to expand the article. -- Taku 22:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

And that is my fault. When I wrote about the flags of Belarus, Lithuania (which are FA, btw), I was asked to include flags that are related in some degree. What I wanted to do with the last section is show that the Hinomaru itself has spawned other flags, such as the Rising Sun flag used by the Navy. About the controversy with the flag, I covered it in a manner which I see now as very, very short. If you can add a section about it, I can try and fix up the English to the best of my knowledge. The only changes I done so far was to remove the section on the civilian ensigns used after WW2. I also removed the images from that section too. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 22:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The article Kimi ga Yo (Japanese national anthem) cites some articles that discuss the issue of the flag also (such as this). You may write a paragraph or two on the issue by referring to them. --Saintjust 02:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Please see the long footnote in Occupation of Japan, and related discussion in talk! Ling.Nut 06:17, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

You mean the issue of SCAP restricting the use of the sun flag during the post-war occupation period? --Saintjust —Preceding comment was added at 06:40, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Some objected to the heavy coverage of the ensigns, because they were not national flags. I had to reword it. I also removed the images before, but was undone by another user. I am debating to replacing the ensign images with that of the "Z" flag or an example of a warlord flag from the samurai era. I did some editing to Kimi ga Yo, so I can take some of the sentences there and work them here. I also kindly request that some of the sections that I have seemed to miss here, but do exist on Japanese Wikipedia, can be translated and sent here. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 07:07, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Objection to coverage in this article of the military variants of the Hinomaru — the Hachijō-Kyokujitsuki war flag and the (in)famous naval ensign — would seem unwarranted: these are flags that represent the nation of Japan just as much as the Hinomaru does, though in special (military) contexts. The objection to prefectural flags, flags of the Imperial Family, etc. being covered here does, on the other hand, seem helpful to sharpening the focus of this article. List of Japanese flags does seem a better place to cover flags used in Japan that represent things other than the nation of Japan. --ScottMainwaring 07:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

They are not objecting to the military flags at all, they are more thinking about the flags of the prefectures and of the cities. Imperial, i'm tossed up over that one. Honestly, as long as I am working with the people who want to question the GA status of the article, it should be fine. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 08:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Controversy section added. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 09:01, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm quite late but here goes. I should have made it clear that I'm not objecting to the military variants. They are closely related and apparently belong here. I didn't know about List of Japanese flags and it seems a good idea (per my early post) to move materials about prefectural and imperial flags over there. Are we agreed with this? I will be (or anyone can) making this change if no one seems to object. -- Taku 22:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

About translation. I am quite happy to translate stuff in the corresponding ja article to here, when I have time. Just so you know. -- Taku 22:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

About the subnational flags, I remember I had to add them into the Flag of Lithuania article in order for it to become FA. I noticed that people want to see what other flags are used inside the country, so I had to include various governmental, subnational, etc. Also, the last section with derivatives, I wanted to showcase a few flags that were inspired by the Hinomaru. Also, a question; should we include a list of days to fly the Hinomaru? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

On the English Wikipedia, verifiable English-language sources are better than verifiable Japanese language sources. Time to search JSTOR and LexisNexis. Ling.Nut 01:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Right, but you had some doubts about some of the English sources I used. If it is some comfort, the Japanese sources I used in the subnational flags are repeated in English at the FOTW page. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

(undent) Those other sources smelled a bit too much like personal webpages! Come on, we can find referen ces in academic journals and books... Ling.Nut 01:40, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that some of them only contain the information that is critical to a decent understanding of flag study. In our case, they are the only English sources for some of the flag technical aspects. If I find pages about, lets say, military flags of Japan, I can see what I can do about sourcing, but I would not be surprised if I find them in Japanese. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I think I have an idea; we should keep the laws that the FOTW site mentions as a list of references, since whatever the Japanese law says is exactly what FOTW has. The examples I provide is the military flags. I don't know what other English sources we could use for the actual flags themselves, but for the news stories and such, let's use all English for that. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:37, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[1] might work for us. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:41, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Some relevant news stories would be [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. Note that Japan Times is known for liberal slant, so they don't necessarily reflect mainstream views. -- Taku 08:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC) Sorry. I didn't realize some are already mentioned in the article. -- Taku 08:17, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for looking. I added one more from this list you gave. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 08:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I've closed the GAR. The discussion is now in the archives. Geometry guy 17:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

move & rename section; Any objections?

I think the "Historical" section should be renamed "History" and moved immediately below the WP:LEDE. Any objections? Ling.Nut 07:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

GA Sweeps

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The only small comment I have is that those sources in Japanese or Chinese characters should be translated in parenthesis to ease understanding by English speakers. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Jackyd101 (talk) 17:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Formatting Error

I don't know the details of the markup, but there's a problem with the formatting in the Notes section that causes 117-122 to appear to the right of the page and mess with the page width. Anyone know how to fix this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.35.93.22 (talk) 02:34, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

DEAD LINK

THIS ARTICLE SO MANY DEAD LINKS, YOU SHOULD BE FIX IT ! Thank you ! 14.242.187.200 (talk) 01:27, 29 March 2019 (UTC)