Talk:Franco-Columbian

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Okay, I've added a fair amount of information as I felt this entry didn't do the community justice. It's got a bit of a Coquitlam bias as that's where I grow up and what I know best. Please feel free to add and edit!

I'll be back; the French communiies in Terrace and the Okanagan and their associated radio stations, the Whistler francophonie of the '70s and '80s (most still up there, those who settled down anyway) and also the history of the French in early BC - that's really a separate article, not sure what to call it; Belgian/ Franc-French, Metis and Quebeckers were all part of it so "French Canadian history in British Columbia" doesns't work as a title; missionaries, fur traders, and businessmen...Adrien-Gabriel Morice's History of the French in Northwest British Columbia or whatever it's called would probably be a good place for anyone interested to start (available online in French or English).Skookum1 (talk) 03:50, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Who are FCs?

Needing a clarification here as to the meaning of the term i.e. as used in French, and by Franco-Columbians themselves; as a term does it mean any francophone resident of BC, or from the historical francohpone population? I know 9being one) that' it's not used to mean those simply of French descdent. But does it include the African and Vietnamese and Haitians etc? Historically the franncophonie in BC has alwasy included Belgians and French-from-France as well as the Metis and the Quebecois of the fur trade; the milling and lumbering populations of Maillardville, Mission, Terrace etc and the orcharding-related population of the Okanagan and Kootenays are the core historical elemtns; but all, including the new immigrants, are "Canadian", unless that' being used to mean "of Canadian stock", i.e. of Canada/new France. But again, the Belgians in particular are prominent in early BC, and not just as clergy; half-a-dozen names come to mind. The francohponie always included, also the Scots and mahy of the English in the fur trade, for whom French was a working language. So I'm unsure if this article should talk ab out all of them, or is there a specific group-meaning that the local association means, not just any francophone, or mother-tongue francophone, or what/who exactly. I suspect in terms of funding/multicultural status it's probably any francophone, but not any person of French/Quebecoi descent; the 54,000 figure would be much larger if so.

A good number of these listed francophones would be European and African immigrants or migrants from eastern Canada, and therefore not members of the Franco-Columbian community per se.

Needs amendment; I'm just not sure how to given the issues just raised above; I think that was my line, but looking at it again I see it has its problems. "Migrants from Estern Canada" means newly-arrived Quebecois and Acadians etc; not Africans and Europeans relocatedfrom eastern Canada, which is a syntax problem in that sentence also.Skookum1 (talk)

Hi folks - I'm the one two above, who intially expanded this entry (Adding Coquitlam info) and I haven't checked back in a while - and I must say - I'm impressed! It looks great! Really great additions! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.218.83 (talk) 21:20, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Error/fallacy

This article continues to have certain problems with context/wording; I came across this, which is downright odd and either redundant or a fallacy:

The popularity of French immersion education programmes have also meant that the French-speaking population outnumbers the francophone population.

Uh, doesn't it seem that someone who is French-speaking is a francophone? Period? What difference is there between a "native British Columbian" who has been raised speaking French and a francophone from Quebec or Africa or Algeria?? Oh, "they're actually anglos", maybe. Even if the context is "French as mother tongue", then many African or Vietnamese francophones are also in the same category as "French-immersion anglos"? Another aspect of this is that there are far more people of French ancestry (whether from Quebec, as with my own family, or from Belgium, Switzerland etc, who are relatively common within the French-ancestry spectrum) than there are people who are either mother-tongue francophones or second-language francophones. But the notion that someone who is French-speaking is not a francophone is utterly redundant.Skookum1 (talk) 13:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

By this I meant people like me (from Coquitlam, anglo, French immersion), who can speak French, but where it is not their first language. Francophone means first or dominant language is French. To me, the place of origin is unimportant it's about dominant language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.218.83 (talk) 21:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Historical fallacy

This is one of the opening lines, and betrays a Central Canadian bias/lack of knowledge about BC's history:

British Columbia is, geographically, the farthest-removed province from Canada's historic francophone population, thus it is not surprising to find that francophone British Columbians are few in number.

From the 0-decade of the 1800s through to the mid-1850s, the vast majority of non-indigenous people in BC were francophones; either actual French Canadians and/or Metis (often indistinguishable) or the Scots and English who used French to communicate with them. In other words, British Columbia, prior to the creation of the mainland colony in 1858, was dominantly French (among the non-natives). There was also, during the gold rush, a distinction between French and Canadians (when "Canadian" was the accepted term for what we now call a French Canadian); there was a tide of French in from California, originally from France, Belgium or Switzerland, who had been in the California gold rush; most had been mercenaries in Central America before that. And "Canada's historic French population" would necessarily include the similarly-French early settlers of the Prairies, who are also overlooked and cold-shouldered as if they did not/had not existed by Central Canadian-origin French....Skookum1 (talk) 13:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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