Talk:Glasgow dialect

Questionable additions

Somebody added these two (in the wrong place):

Willy-Penis

Fud-Vagina, Idiot

Fellow Glaswegians are invited to discuss: are these terms particular to Glasgow? Camillus (talk) 15:04, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm not a Glasgwegian (though that may make my comments of more use) but I believe these terms occur in every playground in the country. So no, not part of the Glasgow patter. Maccoinnich 17:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Maccoinnich - and I'm sorry about the "Fellow Glaswegians" - don't mean to be exclusive... Camillus (talk) 19:51, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

"Willy" is used in many places in the world, including the USA. There is a line in "Friends" where Mrs Geller tells everyone that "Ross used to tuck his little willy between his legs and shout 'Look mommy, I'm a girl, can I go to the beauty parlour too?'" Also, see The Simpsons, where there are numerous double-entendre lines relating to Groundskeeper Willy. So, no, definitely *not* peculiar to Glasgow, or even Scotland.

Many of the other terms listed here are certainly not particular to Glasgow in their usage and - I'd guess - not in their origin either. Also, although spelling in Scots is not particularly standardised a lot of the spelling of terms, especially in the quotations in the article, seems unconventional at least. --Mutt Lunker 18:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Particks

I've never heard the term 'Particks' to refer to breasts. But if people do say it, then surely it comes from a rhyming slang on 'Partick Thistles' (nipples). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.149.96 (talk) 17:55, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Or from English rhyming slang. Partick Thistle = Bristol = Bristol City = Titty. Opera hat (talk) 14:35, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Tube

As in your a pure tube fir dain that

Is it Glasweigan or Scottish? I always thought it to be Glasweigan. Any thoughts on it's inclusion?

I'm from Edinburgh, and the term is used here. Generally Scots, rather than Glaswegian, I think. - Duncan Sneddon

Correct spelling on this should be 'choob'. Justin.Parallax (talk) 10:38, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

A variant, yes, but not more "correct". And per above, general rather than Glaswegian. Mutt Lunker (talk) 17:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

"Nip"

Says here that to "nip" is to french kiss? I always thought to "nip a burd" was just to "pull", or "lumber" a girl??? Camillus (talk) 23:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

It definitely meant french kissing when I was at school. Reveilled 13:06, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

It certainly did in the 90s --JamesTheNumberless 14:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

More words

How about the following?

"Steamin'" - Drunk. Reputed to originate from cruises down the River Clyde where copious amounts of alcohol were drunk; the cruises took place in steam boats, hence the phrase.

"Mingin'" - Dirty, filthy, disgusting.

"Blether" - A long chat, often containing gossip. Can also refer to a person who talks or gossips a great deal.

"muppit"- a stupid person who annoys you

"Gubby" - Lauren Cambell

Anyone know if these are unique to Glasgow or not?213.86.59.92 13:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Steaming maybe. Others not, as far as I can see. Minging was Scottish but has now been taken up in England and perhaps elsewhere. Blether has a slight Scottish flavour but not much. Flapdragon 16:51, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I've put in a link to the dictionary at Firstfoot.com--RDT2 13:39, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

What about the use of "How" instead of "Why". As in, "You`ll need to go outside", and the reply would be simply "How?"

The usage of "how" in that context is widespread throughout lowland Scotland and not specific to Glasgow. Mutt Lunker 09:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Bit late, but "Steaming" is also common in Greater Manchester. -- Jza84 · (talk) 01:20, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I've heard all of those bar "Gubby" in Edinburgh.- Duncan Sneddon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.215.5.6 (talk) 15:49, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Muppit is of course the same as Muppet (Jim Henson's puppet troupe). Decapitalised, its use is widespread throughout the English-speaking world for a stupid but fairly harmless person, with a slight undertone of indulgence or affection.

Gubby is really just a Glasgow variant of gobby, meaning loud and garrulous (lots of gob, i.e., mouth).

Nuttyskin (talk) 11:34, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

aye "nippin" a burd is just "gettin aff wi her" which is just kissing and maybe a wee bit of tit. in my experience lol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steyabass (talk • contribs) 12:51, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Tom Shields Diary is not Glasgow

"Lally's Palais", "Lazarus Lally" and "Fort Weetabix" are in no way relevant to an entry on Glaswegian patter. Not only are the Lally references out of date and merely political barbs anyway, but all three phrases - if they ever existed - are limited to the pages of the Herald and in particular the Tom Shield Diary. Whilst amusing to a handful of people, they cannot be left to stand here. The references to the Concert Hall and the religious museum are absolute nonsense anyway, and in general no Glaswegian would recognise these phrases. At best, they've been foisted upon the populace by patronising journalists (as was the case with the "Squinty Bridge" nickname). If we admit rubbish like this, we'd have to include the whole of the (mostly manufactured) "Parliano Glaswegian" of Stanley Baxter. Likewise: "Uryegauntaethegemmethemorra (Are ye gaun tae the gemme themorra) Are you going to the game tomorrow?" isn't "patter", it is a line of dialogue written in a slurred faux Glaswegian way. This might be acceptable in Glasgow based dramatic writing, but again, it does not technically belong here. Of course, to any outsider anywhere, locals seem to speak quickly in their own dialect, with words being "strung together" - this isn't peculiar to Glasgow. Anyone could write "Uryegonacheckthatupoanwikipediaanthat?" for instance. This is just nonsense, and again it belongs under the Stanley Baxter comedy dialogue category, not here. There is a difference between Glasgow patter and what middle class Herald readers think how working class Glaswegians speak, and it shouldn't be the purpose of Wikipedia to institionalise this dissonance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.9.253.132 (talk • contribs)

Agreed Camillus (talk) 11:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, agreed until anon inserted stuff but about stringing words together. This is most definitely a feature of the "patter". This is not just a case of a different "dialect" - the "patter" captures the humour and lyricism of the way people speak in Glasgow - we even say things like "aye, he's good at the patter". The article is "Glasgow Patter", not "Glasgow dialect". It may be worth considering that Stanley Baxter merely reflected (in a humourous way) what he observed from listening to people Glasgow - he was a Glaswegian himself. The Glasgow Patter if very much alive - please don't try to turn it into a lifeless thing, removing the humour, one of its most important features. Camillus (talk) 14:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Why do people always have to spoil Wikipedia by letting facts get in the way of a good article?

84.135.201.127 14:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think there's a fundamental difference between local dialect and what is essentially a music hall turn, and again, it's a case of some people assuming that that's how other people speak. Whilst amusing to some, it's deeply patronising and really bears no relation to reality with the way people now talk in Glasgow. It's the Rab C Nesbit perspective on the working classes, a comedy character years ago played out in "Those Little Stories from the Police Court" in the Weekly News, perpetrated and mutated by middle-class writers for so long it's become a parody of itself. It's like taking Jim Davidson's "Chalky" character as a guide to how black people speak - patronising, out of date, offensive, and just plain wrong.

"Patter" in this sense should equate to the Irish "blarney", not to people talking as if they are both stupid and drunk. This was my point. Who actually talks like this? Where is the evidence? This belongs in the same category of the "mean Scotsman" or the Liverpudlian comedian on every corner - semi-mythical stuff that people assume exists in others but not themselves - in other words, stereotypes. It's like having an entry on the dialects of British Asians that listed phrases such as "a thousand pardons" or "goodness gracious me" as being representative. It seems innocuous and harmless, but actually it is corrupt and corrupting and it perpetrates a lie.~~~~, ~~~~,

This is going nowhere - please state what specific items in the article that you feel are patronising, or sound that people are stupid or drunk? People in Glasgow have a distinctive way of talking, I don't think this can be denied, it can range from the profane to the lyrical, and there is often a large slice of humour thrown in - I entirely agree that it has echoes with "blarney". Please tell us how you think the article could be improved, what left out, what added, rather than general pontificating. (BTW, don't use the "nowiki" tags, just type the four "tildes" to sign your name - I used the nowiki tags so that my signature wouldn't be inserted in the example). Camillus (talk) 19:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Going nowhere? I wasn't trying to justify myself to you. You perhaps should remind yourself what Wikipedia is supposed to be about - people don't have to come to you with suggestions. You are not in any way an authority or a conduit. You are only here to prevent vandalism.

I have made the necessary changes and I am happy with the way the article now stands. If I think it can be improved I will do so, as, I suspect, will other members of the great unwashed public.

Er, no, I'm not just here to prevent vandalism - I have a right to an opinion on the content of articles, just as you or anyone else has, no more right and no less right. You have a right to make the "necessary changes", while I amy only here to prevent vandalism? How does that work? I don't know what you're getting so haughty about - I agreed with 3 of your changes, wasn't so sure about 1 other, your other changes were very minor, so I just don't see what the big polemic about the article being patronising was? Camillus (talk) 11:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add that this article's tone comes off as being rather patronising to Glasgow folk. For example, is patter spoken or shouted in Glasgow -- the former is more fitting methinks. Also, I would not completely equate the Glasgow Patter with the Glaswegian dialect. The Glasgow Patter evokes warmth, friendliness and ingenuity (in my humble opinion as a well-travelled Glaswegian). Also, the remark about the "tedious" Stanley Baxter sketches. Using the word "tedious" is too subjective and it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.182.52.24 (talk) 18:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I was going to suggest that the examples section should be part of an article called Glasgow slang,but when searching for this article I was directed to Glasgow patter! This section just does not belong here,if I walked into the corner shop and shouted bawbag they would'nt laugh at my patter, they would either have me arrested or have me sectioned before I could say geezabrek! Patter is the humour put into a whole conversation which quite often includes a large dollop of sarcasm. Also,different slang words are used in different parts of the city. I worked in the east end for many years and came across many slang words I had never heard of, 2 examples being, a roll and snarler - a roll and sausage, and lechie bill - electricity bill. Now I was born and bred in Glasgow, so this tells me that Glasgow slang is entirely different from Glasgow patter, which as I said must contain some humour! Well thats my tuppenys worth,whatever that means!--Jack forbes (talk) 00:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletions

I've just deleted all the examples as they were all unreferenced. I made some [necessarily unreferenced] contributions myself. These were far more credible than some of the existing ones, (at least from what I've heard in central Glasgow) but they were all rm'd by some anal editor. For consistency, only referenced examples should be included. I personally think wikipedia isn't appropriate for this kind of info anyway.

The expression "patter" to refer to some kind of dialect is a middle class invention anyway. Slang by its very nature can't be referenced or officially documented in most cases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.195.99 (talk) 22:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Move to Retitle Article

I write in absorption of much that Jack Forbes has written above. He makes some good points; but his own middle-class origins are as severe a limitation in their way as the Stanley-Baxterisms he rails against. Many, many people do use the slang terms he confesses never to have heard in his life. I've used many of them myself. That said, a general atmosphere of benighted ignorance exudes from this article, particularly glaring in the misdefinition of common Glaswegian words: a bawbag, for example, is not typically a fool as much as a contemptible person. The article could really do with being re-written in its entirety. Especially, it must be retitled: patter in Glaswegian Scots means much as it would in the context of a fairgound barker, meaning the talk of someone which is edged with humour and a kind of good-natured cheek, frequently only just short of outright lies. The title ought, rather, to be Glaswegian Scots. Nuttyskin (talk) 12:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I'm glad you where absorbed. As for you thinking I'm middle class? I've no idea what age you are (I'm guessing young) and I won't tell you my age. Suffice to say I was born and brought up in what this generation would call a slum. The generation above me were stricken with polio and rickets. When I was a teenager our home was demolished and we were moved to a marvelous place on the outskirts of Glasgow, a place called Drumchapel. So, middle class? Think again my friend. Jack forbes (talk) 23:26, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

This Glaswegian agrees with you that the article name should be changed to Glaswegian Scots. Now that I've defended my credentials as a working class man I'll go back to my extended wikibreak. ;) Jack forbes (talk) 11:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

To the accusation of having accused you of being middle-class, I apologise most abjectly. However, if you're old enough to remember people suffering the after-effects of polio and rickets, I can only reply that I thought your generation long-dead, though I fear not: with the recent resurgence of tuberculosis, who knows what revenants may return to torment us? It completely charms me that you think I might be young, and have withheld your age accordingly. I am 40, and if you think that's young, you aren't merely old but positively antediluvian ;)

But therein might lie the cause of the problem: it is not, perhaps, class but age which separates your own aspic-preserved patois from that currently heard on the actual streets of the city. Glaswegian Scots is a living language, and that is its traitor as much as its saviour: for as it lives, it must be free to grow and change, to mutate and distort, and even to die off in places, as its speakers instruct. And it must inevitably grow away from the mother tongue you knew, and even I knew, as the years pace on.

Thankyou for your contribution. I hope I've ameliorated my own.

Nuttyskin (talk) 11:22, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Rocket etc.

A rocket isnae an eejit! A rocket's sumdae who's volatile/bad tempert/maddie. E.g., went aff like a rocket.

Never heard emdae use 'jeg' in ma puff! Nor 'click'

Never heard emdae use 'jeg' in ma puff

That's because jeg is a contraction of ginger (ginger beer, hence what English people call pop), which speakers since the 1980s have started to call juice. Though as to click, I share your sense of perplexity.

Nuttyskin (talk) 04:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

"ma puff" is an edinburgh word. we dont say that. its gay. like ppl from edinburgh. hence. ;) so many wrong things on here - who are you ppl pretending to be glaswegian? glasgow rules you fakers! u wish u were here !!!!! lol

fucking teuchters!!!!

"in ma puff": I've heard that in Somerset, in Liverpool, all around the UK. Maybe it's just not known to kids raised on TV and facebook, ignorant enough to think the population of Edinburgh are highlanders. Jistaface (talk) 23:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah've heard folk use 'rocket' tae mean 'mento' but ah've also heard enough folk use it tae mean 'stupit' tae say it means baith, at least in some areas. Plus folk say "in ma puff" aw the time here in Maryhill. As for 'jeg', its a bit ay an older word and 'click', as far as ah know, is an older word meanin 'git aff wae'. Want tae challenge ma Glaswegianess? A couple a' weeks ago ah seen a bus shelter gettin installed at ma bit that wiz awready menshied when they broat it. If there's a mair Glaswegian sight than that, ah've no seen it. Neldo (talk) 02:40, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Influence from London

This entire section is nonsense and needs to be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.152.232 (talk) 00:09, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

The section has numerous references. Do you believe the text does not reflect them accurately or that they are not reliable sources? Mutt Lunker (talk) 10:18, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Article doesn't describe its topic?

This article contains very little information at all about Glaswegian itself as a dialect of English. There's some information about its sociolinguistic situation, and a bit about external influences on it, but there's no linguistic description of how the dialect actually sounds and works.

I'd like to tag this as needing the attention of an expert, but I'm not sure what project to attach it to. I'd also like to propose changing the name to something more scientific and encyclopaedic, such as Glaswegian, Glaswegian English or Glasgow English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.105.213 (talk) 02:11, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Agree almost entirely, expect I believe it should be re-designated as Glaswegian Scots — Glaswegian English being the language of, say, the Scottish media produced in the city, but not of the average people. 86.175.90.153 (talk) 08:59, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Glasgow patter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/ViewAwardPage.aspx?AwardId=1892
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080530235558/http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/sesll/EngLang/phonetics/index.html to http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/sesll/EngLang/phonetics/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:22, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

"at it"

Despite the Scotsman source's categorisation, is "at it" particularly Scots, let alone Glaswegian? Mutt Lunker (talk) 09:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Dark i

Hello,
as I looked through this article, I saw the so-called 'dark i', but nowhere found anything to it.
It was added by an user with the IP 212.250.43.51
Would be happy for an answer
WoelfiVW (talk) 13:24, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

L, not I. Mutt Lunker (talk) 14:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Oh thank You! WoelfiVW (talk) 18:17, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Use of the word patter in the article

As a Glasgow local, the word patter I think is misleading in the title of the article. "Patter" tends to be used to describe an individual persons humour or unique talking style/vocabulary, and the phrase "Glasgow patter" when referring to the vernacular speech of Glaswegians is quite rare. It is normally just called "Glaswegian". As the dialect is quite distinct and widespread (Glaswegian population is officially 600,000, up to 1 million in the larger metropolitan area), and "patter" not a commonly used word in linguistics, I think using Patter in the title is misfitting and the page should be moved to "Glaswegian dialect" or "Glaswegian English", or simply "Glaswegian". --Xolotl100 (talk) 20:00, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree, my preference would be 'Glaswegian dialect', Glaswegian on its own is a bit vague, and calling it either 'Glaswegian English' or 'Glaswegian Scots' is liable to be challenged by those who feel it is more closely linked to the other. In truth it is a mix of both with Irish influences. Crowsus (talk) 23:31, 31 March 2021 (UTC)