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Livonia

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Since the name was changed into Governorate of Livonia in 1796, it should have it's own article. Or the name of this one should be changed as the name of the region the most of the time. That it was originally 'Riga Governorate' is good to know of course but still it would need appropriate source and ref.--Termer 09:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wholehearedly agree! — Zalktis 16:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no sign of any consensus for renaming Kotniski (talk) 10:50, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Governorate of LivoniaLivonia Governorate — Like all the other things, except one, called governorate in Category:Governorates of the Russian Empire Schwyz (talk) 10:41, 9 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Most of those either do not have a corresponding adjectival form at all or the form is rarely used. Which is unlike the case of Livonia and Estonia (or Lithuania). The country name 'Sakha' came into use only in 1990s (it was called Yakutia before that). Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 10:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe that is the problem here, see your writing about Livländisch and Livisch. No good adjective here: If Livonian Governorate is used it refers to the people. But if Livland Governorate is used it is more clear. Livland in Google Books: http://www.google.com/#num=100&hl=en&tbs=bks%3A1&q=livland+russia Schwyz (talk) 15:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Miacek, I'm pretty sure it would be closer to the original Russian (lest there is any confusion, I would like to emphasize that's "original Russian", not "originated in Russian"). "Livland Governorate" is much closer to "Лифляндская губерния" than the "Governorate of Livonia"; same goes for "Estland Governorate" vs. Эстляндская губерния vs. "Governorate of Estonia". I might have been wrong about the "Livonian" suggestion, although I'm pretty sure I've seen it used in English as well.
Furthermore, both "Livland" and "Estland" are used in English—I'm not a fan of using ghits as proof of anything, but they'll do just fine to illustrate the fact that usage exists, and a quick googlebooks search for "Livland"/"Estland" will easily demonstrate such usage. The problem with the too few ghits someone previously reported is exacerbated by our choice of the term "governorate"—between the topic of the governorates of Russia not being represented well in googlebooks and the wild variety of terminology used by the academia it is no surprise that pretty much any specific variant will not return many results. As long as "Livland" and "Estland" are valid English terms (which they are), and as long we all agree that the choice of the term "governorate" best serves Wikipedia's organizational purposes, I see nothing wrong with moving these two articles to "Livland Governorate" and "Estland Governorate". These are not the only possible variants, of course, but from the organizational point of view they seem to be a good compromise (hey, even Schwyz is OK with them :)). Do you have any concerns regarding this? Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 10, 2010; 13:58 (UTC)
I guess you have by now understood that this is not about what the governorates were called (the truth), but about how nationalistic Balts would like their history to have existed (truthiness). The article on Estland was in fact deleted. Funny how it happened so long before WP:EEML was set up. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 14:10, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I actually find it more ironic that Wikipedia is not even supposed to be about truth (and especially truthiness); it is supposed to be about verifiability. I am OK with Estland being an disambig page—from what I'm seeing, the page was deleted because it was neither here nor there; a mixture of a disambig page, a list, and an article. The article about the governorate is in a different situation entirely.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); August 10, 2010; 14:18 (UTC)
Yes, funny that way. Shows just once more how little EEML did in truth - and how much some believe we did. At least we didn't give newspaper interviews lying that we were banned from Wikipedia because of our political views... --Sander Säde 14:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name change

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Working in academia on this province or governorate if you will, I can assure you that the most used name is 'Livland province' in English. When I googled Livland province, I saw this governorate of Livonia, and thought this page was on the medieval Livonia. And yes, I am aware of the annoying way some people work here (mentioned in the preceding discussion from over 10 years ago), only googling stuff trying to make their uninformed opinions into wiki-reality. But Wikipedia should avoid confusion like I just experienced. @Ezhiki: 2001:1C02:1990:A900:FCB5:49EC:22CF:E773 (talk) 14:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]