Talk:Grogu

Needs more about the character

Currently this article is about the technology of presenting the character and the status of its merchandising; can anyone add information about the character itself from the show? How/where it appears in the setting, plot, etc? I haven't seen the show but would appreciate some in-world context. Her Pegship (I'm listening) 18:10, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done— TAnthony^Talk 21:15, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Grogu was raised in Coruscant hidden from the Empire inside the Jedi Temple. After the Clone Wars, Grogu was taken from Coruscant and traded for his high Midiclorian count. A valuable asset for the New Order and the creation of Snoke and Palpatines' survival and nefarious Sith plans. MasterJoeyJedi (talk) 05:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2019

Current Line that needs to be fixed: At one point, the Mudhorn charges at the Child in his floating 'crib', but the Mandalorian uses his grappling hook-and-wire to pull the Child to safety.

Discussion: Unless my memory is incorrect, the character does not use the grappling hook-and-wire in this scene. He instead, as occurs in other scenes, uses the remote control for the basket/prim/crib to issue a quick reposition command. 146.115.44.88 (talk) 20:20, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Not doubting your claim, but we don't take personal opinions. - FlightTime (open channel) 20:23, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

I believe that the episode itself is considered a reliable source for claims about on-screen events in that episode. I recently re-watched it, and IP is correct. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 12:41, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Storylines

Do we really need to essentially provide plot summaries of each episode in this article about a character? --ZimZalaBim ^talk 03:40, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

They're mostly focused on things that impact the Child, but if you feel they could be tightened, I don't disagree. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 04:08, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I just noticed and reverted the split by episode, which isn't realy appropriate for a character article, especially as time goes on. The section is long because as the season went on we didn't know what would be important. I think it's fine until season two, when it can be trimmed down of detail. But I wouldn't object to an attempt now, and maybe I'll try myself.— TAnthony^Talk 04:33, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

It surely doesn't need to be a big intimidating wall-o'-text, though? —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 05:28, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Ha, I have a very big monitor ;) — TAnthony^Talk 15:14, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I've drafted a more character-focused version. I'm putting it up here for comment and suggestions before I edit it into the article:

Storylines

The Child first appears at the climax of the first episode of the series. The titular Mandalorian bounty hunter Din Djarin (Pedro Pascal) is pursuing a commission to track down and acquire an unidentified fifty-year-old "asset", which proves to be the Child in a floating, remote-controlled stroller (referred to in the series as a "pram"). The bounty hunter droid IG-11 (Taika Waititi) attempts to kill the Child per its bounty orders, but is destroyed by Din, who takes the Child alive. In Chapter 2: The Child, Din is attacked by a rhinoceros-like creature called a Mudhorn. At one point in the fight it charges at the pram, which Din quickly whisks out of the way. As the Mudhorn rushes Din for the kill, the Child uses the Force to levitate the beast, allowing the surprised Din to kill it.

In Chapter 3: The Sin, Din returns to the planet Nevarro, home to the bounty hunters' guild who are his employers, and delivers the Child, as per his commission, to the unnamed Client (Werner Herzog), a former official of the now-defunct Empire. The Child is taken away for a mysterious scientific procedure, and Din departs with his payment – only to return shortly afterwards, raid the Client's headquarters, and retrieve the Child, sparing the life of scientist Dr Pershing (Omid Abtahi) when the latter begs him not to hurt the creature. Din's actions set off a shoot-out with the bounty hunters' guild, led by Greef Karga (Carl Weathers), from which he and the Child are unexpectedly rescued by the local Mandalorian tribe.

Chapter 4: Sanctuary opens with a scene in which the Child fiddles with the controls of Din's ship the Razor Crest. This scene has become the basis of a popular YouTube meme in which the Child turns on the ship's radio, with various songs edited into the soundtrack. Din takes him to the sparsely populated planet Sorgan, where they lie low for a while; he decides to leave him in the care of a village of kind farmers, but when another bounty hunter arrives to claim the Child, Din realizes the village will not be safe and departs with him. Din subsequently saves the Child from aspiring bounty hunter Toro Calican (Jake Cannavale) in Chapter 5: The Gunslinger, and from the droid pilot Zero (Richard Ayoade) in Chapter 6: The Prisoner.

In Chapter 7: The Reckoning Greef Karga asks Din to help him liberate Nevarro from Imperial reinforcements in exchange for clearing the bounty on Din and the Child. Anticipating a trap, Din recruits the aid of Cara Dune (Gina Carano), an ex-Rebel shocktrooper, Kuiil (Nick Nolte), an Ugnaught farmer and mechanic, and IG-11, who has been repaired and reprogrammed by Kuiil. The recruitment of Kuiil is prompted by the Child himself attempting to take control of the Razor Crest while Din and Cara are conversing in the hold. When Din and Cara are arm wrestling, the Child mistakes Cara for an enemy and begins Force choking her, but Din stops him.

On Nevarro, they rendezvous with Greef and other guild members outside of the town. During a night attack on their camp Greef is injured and the Child heals him using the Force. The following day Greef kills the other guild members, confessing that he intended to kill Din until the Child healed him. Din sends Kuiil back to his ship with the Child, while he, Cara, and Greef head into town to kill the Client with the empty pram as bait. Kuiil is killed by stormtroopers, who take the Child for the Client's employer Moff Gideon (Giancarlo Esposito).

In Chapter 8: Redemption, IG-11 rescues the Child from the troopers, and then arrives to find Din's crew besieged by Gideon and his forces. The Child uses the Force to deflect an attacking stormtrooper's flamethrower back on him, and the group escapes through a sewer grate, seeking help from the hidden Mandalorians. They find only one surviving member of the tribe, the Armorer (Emily Swallow), who instructs Din to care for the foundling Child as his own, discover its origins, and return it to its kind, in accordance with the Mandalorian creed. Escaping Gideon and his remaining troopers, Din leaves Nevarro with the Child.

References

—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 04:54, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Well, I've just found an inaccuracy in the above. The third paragraph should begin

Chapter 4: Sanctuary follows its intro with a scene in which the Child fiddles with the controls of Din's ship the Razor Crest.

—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 04:54, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Still mulling this over. It needs a general statement about the Child's Force powers and limitations, something less directly tied to the plot sequence, to sum up in one sentence how the Child falls asleep each time he uses the Force, and maybe one more sentence about how he doesn't understand what's going on (including both Force choking Cara and not understanding when he's asked to "do the magic hand thing"). —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 11:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. First of all, that plot summary is a bit too long. As with all character articles, the plot section should be character-centric, but should not be a play-by-play of the character's every action in every episode, or include every detail. Like him fiddling with the ship's controls. The current version in the article is also a bit long for a single season but in my last trim I tried to preserve everything "important". As far as an overview of the character's powers, any such summary needs reliable sources. The plot section already details the Child's actions, like stopping the Mudhorn, but any interpretation on your part about the scope of his abilities or what "he doesn't understand" are OR, and your POV.— TAnthony^Talk 18:28, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

• I think a description of the Child's Force powers and limitations could be discussed in a "Characterization" article similar to those in Rose Tico, or Bib Fortuna, or the IG-11 article I recently started. We have to be cautious of course that a section like this doesn't get filled with OR or speculation (just as we have to be careful of that in plot summary sections), and TAnthony is 100% correct that anything added has to be cited by reliable sources. But a Characterization section would be an opportunity to discuss important personality and character elements that wouldn't be appropriate for a plot summary, in one central spot so the reader won't have to mull through a long plot summary to find characterization details scattered here and there... — Hunter Kahn 19:22, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

I take your point, Tanthony. Another thing to avoid, I should note – a constant temptation with articles about fictional media – is leaning too hard on a "within-world" perspective rather than a "real world" perspective. I'm flexible on the "fiddling with the controls" scene, but that was why I included it. It doesn't contribute much to the plot, and is only a brief snapshot of Din and the Child's developing relationship, but it has generated so many YouTube memes in the real world that there is at least one published article (as cited) solely about those memes. If I were to find two more that would technically make it notable enough to have a Wikipedia article all to itself (don't worry, I don't intend to do this).

It's a bit of a judgement call exactly where the limit lies between OR and just describing what's on screen during a given episode. As it stands, for instance, the article states that the Child "uses the Force" and "force chokes" Cara, but the Force has never in fact been named in the series, and indeed is only mentioned circuitously in speculative remarks by Kuiil and the Armorer. Nevertheless I think we agree that it is perfectly reasonable for this article to ascribe the Child's powers to the Force, and wikilink it.

Well, on screen, the Child carries through a Force use to completion three times – lifting the Mudhorn, healing Greef Karga, blowing back the flame-thrower – and he falls asleep after every one of those times. Provided we are clear enough that we are only describing what is shown on screen, I don't see a problem with making this connection. As for the Child's level of understanding, that I admit is getting more speculative, but I think it's uncontroversial that he responds to his surroundings with the comprehension of an infant. Again, the character could be hiding a deeper understanding of things that we'll see in later seasons, but going purely on what we've seen on screen, he's an infant.

You are quite right that the section needs to be more concise. I'll give it further thought, and of course gladly receive further advice and suggestions. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 10:15, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree with your statement that we should maintain a strong real-world perspective, but I think the article currently does that well. The in-universe info is appropriately contained in the storyline section. I don't think we should refer to memes within that section, even with sources. The meme situation is already mentioned in the Reception section, but I wouldn't necessarily mind coverage of notable examples like drinking the soup, but I don't think we need to refer them back to certain scenes. I encourage you to add a Characterization section (that the rest of us can pick apart LOL), and I don't think you'll have much trouble finding episode reviews and recaps that cover everything you want to say.— TAnthony^Talk 21:13, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Move to "Baby Yoda"?

Not formally requesting a move, but I'm wondering what we all think about the title of this article. "Baby Yoda" is, by far, the most common name of this character in the media, and he's hardly ever even referred to as "The Child" in-universe at all. That said, I understand it might be a little weird to have a mostly-informal nickname be the title of the article, common as it may be. —Will^(B) 17:37, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

This is a tricky one because yes, Baby Yoda is the undoubtedly the common name, but it's also incorrect/confusing because he is not actually Yoda as a baby, and the franchise itself does not call him that. I'm not sure how this issue has been addressed in other articles (outside Star Wars), has anyone seen a similar example?— TAnthony^Talk 20:45, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I don't know if this is a perfect comparison, but the album "The Beatles" is WAY more widely known as "The White Album", but that's not the title of the article. In any event, I think it would be problematic to go with the Baby Yoda name, because it's not the character's actual name, nor is the name formally embraced by the show, and naming the article that could create confusion and inaccuracies, as TAnthony suggests. I'm frankly fine with the naming as it is now, with the term "Baby Yoda" redirecting here and the nickname being mentioned in the very first sentence. Plus, this might not be applicable here, but there was a long debate in the show's talk page about whether we should just include the word "darksaber" in a brief sentence in the plot summary, with those in opposition noting the word is never actually said in the show. Obviously the term "Baby Yoda" hasn't either... — Hunter Kahn 21:23, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree that this page should not be moved. "Baby Yoda" is not the creature's actual name, it's just something that we've taken to calling him, And it's important to be clear that this is not actually baby Yoda. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:11, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree too. For all we know the character may have a "real" name that we will hear in a later season (as we got "Mando"'s real name in 1x08). —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 00:14, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2020

alias with 71.254.12.11 (talk) 11:17, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 13:05, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I believe this is in regard to this edit by this IP, which I reverted a 2nd time with the explanation that "Baby Yoda" is not an alias of the character in the context of the infobox parameter |alias=.— TAnthony^Talk 15:08, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

I think |alias= in an infobox about a fictional character means an alias that the character gets called within-world, such as "Clark Kent", "Kal-El", and "Superman". No-one on The Mandalorian calls this character "Baby Yoda"; he's "the child", "the kid", or "the baby". —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Child (Star Wars)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TheJoebro64 (talk · contribs) 14:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Baby Jabba is cuter, if you ask me. JOEBRO64 14:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• TheJoebro64 To each their own! LOL Thanks for taking on the review... — Hunter Kahn 19:11, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Lede

• "The Child... is a fictional character..." Alrighty, first things first: IMO, "fictional" is redundant. A character is, by definition, fictional. Even if they're based on a real person (like Creed Bratton), they're fictionalized to at least some extent. And even if we ignore that, no one is going to think a tiny green alien who appears in a TV series is an actual, living organism.
• "... with whom he shares a similarly strong ability with The the Force." "Similarly" is implied by "shares". Also, the definitive article of "the Force" is not part of the concept's title, so it shouldn't be capitalized.
• "The Child and the Mandalorian are the only two characters who..."
• "The Child has received an overwhelmingly positive reception..." I don't doubt that it was overwhelming, but two things here: first, modifiers are generally unnecessary, and second, "overwhelmingly" could potentially be considered WP:POV. I don't think you'll lose anything by chopping it; after all, the reader is informed right there he's the show's breakout character.
• "The Hollywood Reporter has claimed said the character..." "Claim is a word to avoid, since it's a loaded term and can call the credibility of the person/publication into question.

• I don't disagree with any of these, so I've gone ahead and implemented the changes, and removed a few other instances of "claimed" in the article, as well as another use of "overwhelmingly" in the Reception section. — Hunter Kahn 01:36, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Appearances

• I would link Yoda's species at "the same alien species" in the first sentence of the section, given that it's done in the lede.
• "As of the end of Season 1..." I'm not sure about this, since I'm not really used to writing articles about television, but should you say "the first season" instead of "Season 1"? I wouldn't think "Season" should be a proper noun, and MOS:SPELL09 recommends spelling out 0–9 in words.
• "... the Mandalorian protects him and instead shoots and kills destroys IG-11." Missing a period. Also, I'm not sure "kills" is the best word to use here because IG-11 is a robot. Plus, he comes back a few episodes later, so it could potentially confuse readers when he's suddenly re-introduced in the section.
• No other comments here, generally well written.
  • Thanks TheJoebro64. I've made edits based upon the suggestions above. — Hunter Kahn 13:57, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't see the point in providing detailed plot summaries of each episode The Child appears in. That seems redundant for each episode's own article. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 14:09, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

• I tried to limit the descriptions to the specific roles The Child played in each episode, not provide a synopsis of the episodes themselves. — Hunter Kahn 03:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

Characterization

• "Physically, the Child very closely resembles Yoda..." "Substitute 'damn' every time you're inclined to write 'very'; your editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be." - Mark Twain
  • LOL Nice. Removed the (damn) very. — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
• "... with sharing his same signature green skin and long, pointed ears."
  • Changed. — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Kevin Melrose of Comic Book Resources CBR.com noted..." This one is completely up to you, but the name of the website changed some time ago to just CBR.com (the article still resides at "Comic Book Resources" because of WP:COMMONNAME).
  • I guess I'd rather keep it at "Comic Book Resources", though if you feel strongly I'll make the change. — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Concept and creation

• "The Child was conceived and created by Jon Favreau..." I personally think "created" is unnecessary because conceived sort of means the same thing. Also, it removes some repetition because afterward comes "... the creator and showrunner of The Mandalorian."
  • Removed "and created". — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
• The "the" in "the Walt Disney Company" should not be capitalized.
  • Fixed. — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
• "When CGI is utilized used..." This is another one that's up to you, but IMO "utilize" is almost always redundant to another, simpler verb.
  • Accepted your suggested wording. Thanks TheJoebro64! — Hunter Kahn 14:00, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
• The only real comment I have about the Filming section is if "When this story was later told to the public, some media reports mistakenly described it as if the producers of The Mandalorian were entirely replacing the Child puppet with a CGI creation until Herzog convinced them otherwise" is truly necessary. I don't see how a somewhat minor story that ended up not being true is beneficial to understanding filming, as it's pretty clear that was never the case.
  • I was on the fence myself about whether to include this, so I've struck it. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• Also, Adam Pally and Instagram aren't linked in the Filming section even though it's the first (and as far as I can tell, only) mention of them in the article.
  • Right you are. Fixed it. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• "Pally punched the animatronic Child puppet very hard..."
  • Removed the very. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• Another minor thing that I've noticed around the article is that "internet" is capitalized. While this is purely stylistic and I don't think strongly, "internet" isn't really considered a proper noun anymore, so I personally think all uses should be de-capitalized. (I think it's also worth noting that people capitalized things like "telephone" and "phonograph" when they first came out, too.)
  • Lower-cased all uses of "internet". — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

The term is capitalized here because it is capitalized in the Wikipedia article Internet, and I don't think it should be changed here until consensus charges the main article.— TAnthony^Talk 18:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

• The Walt Disney Company should be unlinked in the Prerelease section, per WP:OLINK.
  • Done. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Themes

• "... before the Mandalorian interveneds."
  • Changed. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• I would add a link to Dark Side of the Force at "... that ability has been most commonly associated with the Dark Side of the Force..." I know the Force is linked earlier, but we haven't talked about the concept of the light/dark sides until now, which could potentially be confusing for someone who isn't familiar with Star Wars.
  • Done. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• "... the Child uses the Force to heal..."
  • Added. — Hunter Kahn 18:31, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
• No other comments here.

Cultural impact

• My main problem with the "Critical reception" section is that it's essentially a bullet list of opinions that's been converted to prose. This is the "A said B" problem (see the essay WP:RECEPTION about this). This isn't a huge problem and if you disagree you needn't alter it too much, but there should at least be a sense of organization and cohesion. Here are some tips to help (a lot of these are present at WP:RECEPTION, but I'll list the most important points):
  • Group related opinions.
  • Paraphrase quotations, and don't rely on too many direct quotes.
  • Vary sentence rhythm.

Hey TheJoebro64, just wanted to let you know I haven't forgotten about this and I'm not ignoring it, just got sidetracked by some real-life stuff, but I will try to get to it and your other comments very soon. — Hunter Kahn 21:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Hunter Kahn, no problem. Take your time. JOEBRO64 21:14, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

• I took a shot at revising this section a bit. I didn't blow it up altogether and start from scratch, but rather tried to rework it and reorder it so it was less of a collection of quotes. I tried instead to group related opinions and focus on specific ideas/themes that stemmed from the critical reception; the Child as a pop culture phenomenon, contributing to Disney+'s success, making Star Wars more relevant for a wider audience, what it means for the future of puppetry and animatronics, etc. etc. I also scaled back on direct quotations and added more paraphrasing. Let me know if you think it needs more work. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

• "comparing him to the Porgs from Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017), and Baby Groot from..."
  • This sentence ended up getting cut as part of my revisions. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
• "wrote that the character is "so lovable that its lovability..."
  • This also got cut. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
• "Another popular meme utilized used..."
  • Changed. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
• I think the "Cultural references" section might benefit from a mention of how other companies have tried introducing "baby" versions of characters seemingly to cash in on the Child's popularity. For instance, this Verge article mentions how Baby Sonic from the Sonic movie "feels like something ripped out of Disney's playbook — taking a beloved character and making it a baby."
  • Nice find. Added this. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
• "... will include a small figurine of the Child."
  • Fixed. — Hunter Kahn 21:10, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

References

• Ref. 20: Remove the greater-than sign in the last name parameter.
• Refs. 41, 50: This is from Forbes' contributors section, which doesn't have as much editorial oversight as the salaried-staff section. This shouldn't be too much of a problem, but I do think we need to double-check that the author of the article (Erik Kain) has credentials.
• Ref. 42: The Niner Times is a student-run newspaper, so I don't think it'd classify as a reliable source.
• Refs. 75, 84, 105, 175: The "B" in ComicBook.com should be capitalized.
• Ref. 89: Vulture is missing a link.
• Ref. 106: Same as I said about the other Forbes ref.
• Ref. 112: Fix link formatting issue in the website parameter.
• Ref. 122: What makes TVweb a reliable source?
• Ref. 139, 189: Metro is an unreliable source, according to WP:RS/P.
• Refs. 154, 159: What makes Junkee a reliable source?
  • I believe I've addressed each of the above; I made the fixes requested, and removes all the sources flagged as unreliable or questionable. Almost all citations I removed were used in combination with other citations to reinforce various facts, so removing them didn't require me to drop any content, with the exception of one fairly inconsequential sentence about Elisabeth Moss commenting on Baby Yoda. As for the Forbes writers, based on their body of work and other info I've seen online about them, it seems to me they are OK to cite in this story; I might have more pause if this were a complicated or controversial topic, but for a pop culture topic like this I'm less concerned. But let me know if you disagree. — Hunter Kahn 13:44, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Misc.

• None

Just to clarify, my review will mostly focus on tightening up the prose and if the cited sources are reliable. Since it's a big article, I'll spot-check a few references to make sure nothing is being misrepresented, but I'm assuming good faith so I'm not expecting anything significant. JOEBRO64 21:33, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

• Sorry again for the delay in finishing this one, TheJoebro64. My wife had a death in the family due to COVID-19, so I haven't had much wiki-time recently. But I expect to wrap up the remaining comments no later than tomorrow. I appreciate your patience! — Hunter Kahn 21:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

  Hunter Kahn, oh gosh, I'm so sorry. My condolences. JOEBRO64 22:16, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

  • Hey TheJoebro64. Thanks for bearing with me. I believe I've now addressed everything, though if anything warrants any follow-up questions or remarks, I'm happy to address them. I appreciate your patience! — Hunter Kahn 21:11, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

  • Hunter Kahn, everything looks good. Passing. JOEBRO64 22:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Gender question

Boy or girl? Is there a source of information? --Sergei Frolov (talk) 19:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

The source of information is the media in which the character appears, in this case the show The Mandalorian. Throughout Season 1, the Child was referred to by other characters either as "he" or as "it", but never as "she". —VeryRarelyStable 00:35, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

In Season 1: episode 3, at 21:41 Dr Pershing says "Please don't hurt her. It's only a child" although the closed captions says "him". I've listened to him several times and I'm pretty sure the doctor says "her". Is it just me? The pronoun stood out so much it prompted me to go back and listen to it over and over. Leeraven172 (talk) 18:10, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 November 2020

Remove the cost of the puppet.

The cost of the puppet is not confirmed at 5 million. That is far too expensive for a animatronic prop and the quote in the source article was stated in a hyperbolic manner to say that the puppet is very expensive, not LITERALLY worth 5 million dollars. Immortal780 (talk) 09:48, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:38, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 27 November 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. Manabimasu (talk) 01:50, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

---

The Child (Star Wars) → Grogu – With his name revealed is it right to move the page to Grogu? Steven a91 (talk) 15:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC)—Relisting. 2pou (talk) 16:19, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

While I believe that we will eventually move the article to Grogu, I think that we should wait at least a week to make sure the new name catches on. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:21, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

"The Child" is by far still the WP:COMMONNAME (well that's actually Baby Yoda...) - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:10, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

This article has never used WP:COMMONNAME, since for every "The Child" there's easily 100 "Baby Yoda"s. We can move the article to Bleepo for all the logic Wikipedia has used in this case. CapnZapp (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 Note: This section was renamed and made into a Requested Move only today, 1 December 2020. Previously it was a regular talk page section. Please give newly alerted editors sufficient time to comment before concluding the discussion. Thank you CapnZapp (talk) 12:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support. It's his name. --IndexAccount (talk) 20:03, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support It's canon now.JOJ ^Hutton 22:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per JDDJS. He is referred to as "The Child" for most of the series up to this point. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 22:52, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) Had we followed WP:COMMONNAME policy this article would never been named "the Child". The prevalence of "Baby Yoda" is astounding. CapnZapp (talk) 11:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

• Support It's been revealed, and will be used from here on out in new media. Of course The Child and Baby Yoda will remain redirects and referenced in the lede and throughout the article, but the article should move to the formal name now that it's been revealed. Jclemens (talk) 01:12, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per its common name. Exactly how we use The Mandalorian (character) for Din Djarin, we use The Child (Star Wars) for Grogu. -- /Alex/₂₁ 01:14, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

We have never used WP:COMMONNAME for this article. CapnZapp (talk) 11:45, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

He is referred to as "the Child" throughout the entire series, hence its common name. -- /Alex/₂₁ 14:21, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Read WP:COMMONNAME again: it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) This article clearly does not use the common name (since that is overwhelmingly "Baby Yoda") CapnZapp (talk) 15:35, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Indeed. He is most commonly referred to as "the Child", especially in the primary source. -- /Alex/₂₁ 23:49, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

WP: COMMONNAME is talking about independent, reliable English-language sources which clearly refers to secondary sources. These sources overwhelmingly refer to the subject of this article as "baby Yoda". Therefore, User:Alex 21, this article is ***not*** using WP:COMMONNAME. (Nothing wrong with that - it just means "oppose per common name" makes no sense as an argument.) This article - for some reason - instead uses the official name. Again, I have nothing against this - please note how Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title uses the qualifier "not necessarily" which means there's nothing wrong with using the official non-common name. Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

• Support either move to "Grogu" or "Baby Yoda" is OK. "The Child" is not its true name or common name anymore. --MuanN (talk) 01:16, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

It's common name is clearly "Baby Yoda". CapnZapp (talk) 11:43, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose a move to "Grogu" until the end of the season, at least. It's crystal-balling on which name will be used in the show more; compare to the Mandolorian/Din Djarin, where we know his name but he's still referred to by his soubriquet both in the show and out of the show. On the balance of things, "Baby Yoda" is more suitable of a title at this point of time than "Grogu". Sceptre (talk) 01:53, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: WP:BALL doesn't apply here. The info has been verified by multiple reliable sources and the event/subject has occurred past the point of speculation. Armegon (talk) 21:27, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support: The show's captions referred to him as Grogu after the reveal  — master son^{T - C} 04:55, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support since the article never used the WP:COMMONNAME ("Baby Yoda"). I may hate the name, but it is canon. I am sympathetic to Sceptre's point, and if for whatever reason the show and characters do not continue using the new name in the future, then this point could be revisited. But, right now, "The Child" is no longer the best option as it neither the WP:COMMONNAME or the common name on the show. Aoba47 (talk) 22:47, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here since the article has always used the name utilized within episodes itself. Since the story now refers to the character by its true name, so should we. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 23:05, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support WP:COMMONNAME doesn't apply here. It's definitely the get used to all of us, I mean that we did have Palpatine gets revealed to be the same character (the Sith Lord Emperor villain that first appeared in The Original Trilogy) from Revenge of the Sith in the theaters back then since his name wasn't mentioned in The Original Trilogy. I mean that all of us wanted to know what was Grogu's true name for months since "Baby Yoda" is a dumb fan name that has zero logical sense since that name we know Grogu isn't Yoda and his species name wasn't mentioned in the Star Wars franchise as well.DigiPen92 (talk) 08:30, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support. The points I'd make have already largely been made above. I'd add: last year everyone called him "Baby Yoda"; this year quite a lot of fans have been calling him "The Child" instead – but every fan response I've seen to Chapter 13 has promptly switched to "Grogu". I fully expect published articles to do the same. In contrast no-one that I can think of has switched from "Mando" to "Din Djarin". —VeryRarelyStable 09:58, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support: WP:COMMONNAME kinda sorta applies here in favor of Grogu: "determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources". Since the episode aired, multiple reliable sources have been referring to the character as "Grogu" and will more than likely continue to do so from now on. So "Grogu" technically takes prevalence now. Armegon (talk) 21:33, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
• Comment: As several posters have pointed out WP:COMMONNAME has not applied here previously. Thank you all who did. (This is not a vote for or against, it's just a comment) CapnZapp (talk) 22:16, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support: Since Grogu is his name, it does not make sense to call him the Child anymore. Drquesarito (talk) 17:53, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support: Grogu is his name, we shouldn't be referring to him as "the Child" anymore. If you want to make the argument that "the Child" is the more common name, it's not. Everyone calls him "Baby Yoda". Grogu is his official name now. Other sites, such as Wookiepedia, now refer to him as "Grogu" instead of "the Child". We should do the same. BazingaFountain42 (talk) 20:15, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support Everything I can say has been said by everybody else; The Child was never his common name, and it isn't going to be the most common canon name either. Unnamed anon (talk) 21:09, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
• Support as per above. Doomsday28 (talk) 21:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
• I have added the requested move template here, since it is clearly a move request. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:46, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: We have 14 Supports to 3 Oppose, and the points made by Oppose largely invoke WP:COMMONNAME, which has been pointed out not to apply. Unless someone on the Oppose side has a counter-argument that no-one has aired yet, I'd say we have consensus. —VeryRarelyStable 02:16, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Comment: The previous decision to not use the common name ("Baby Yoda") and instead use an official designation almost no reliable source used was highly contentious. I see zero reasons to rush to any conclusions here. Let the people talk. CapnZapp (talk) 11:55, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

 Note: This section was renamed and made into a Requested Move only today, 1 December 2020. Previously it was a regular talk page section. Please give newly alerted editors sufficient time to comment before concluding the discussion. Thank you CapnZapp (talk) 11:58, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support Yes, Grogu will likely remain such and we will still have redirects from the old names. The article is made no more confusing but instead accurate. -GoatLordServant ^{(Talk-Contribs)} 13:15, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: "Early" relist (based on RM conversion) to eliminate confusion on when one week passes.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 2pou (talk) 16:19, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 16:46, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support. Just look at the references and tell me Baby Yoda isn't WP:COMMONNAME. IMO all the opposes based on WP:COMMONNAME are invalid, because The Child simply isn't WP:COMMONNAME. Dylsss^{(talk contribs)} 19:11, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. --Sricsi (talk) 22:13, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
• Support per above comments; WP:COMMONNAME actually applies less to The Child rather than Grogu, and on top of that, Grogu is his real name. Hummerrocket (talk) 22:44, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Capitalizing "the" mid-sentence?

the character's official name, as used in subtitles and captions, was "The Child" This seems wrong, but difficult to fix since subtitles and captions presumably (almost?) always have "The" at the start of a line of text and capitalized for that reason. Is there any other reason it's capitalized here? If not, I think it should probably be changed. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:39, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Grogu's craving of live meat

There is a recurring theme (or a running gag?) with Grogu's impartiality towards live meat. He eats live small animals, fertlized eggs and embroys. This has caused several conflicts (Ice spiders, Frog Lady's eggs, etc.). An edit I made concerning this was promptly deleted due to lack of sources. I think it is something worth mentioning. Sceasary (talk) 21:34, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Sceasary, only worth mentioning if sourcing indicates its worth mentioning. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Baby Yoda it not, Grogu it is!

The character is not called "Baby Yoda" in the TV show nor has it ever been referred to as such in the show or in any official merchandise or materials related to the show.Cordyceps-Zombie (talk) 11:27, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a wiki based in the Star Wars universe, it is an encyclopaedia of the real world. In the real world, the character is referred to as "Baby Yoda" more often than either "Grogu" or "the Child". —VeryRarelyStable 11:46, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

• As I said in the edit summary one of the times I reverted you, "baby Yoda" is used 26 times in the article. This is what references called it both before the official name was finally revealed, and even afterwards since its easier to remember and for people to recognize. Dream Focus 20:14, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Alien?

Is it appropriate to describe Grogu as an "alien species"? "Species" without the "alien" qualifier seems more applicable.Yousef Raz (talk) 19:03, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Better to term it an "unknown" species, which is how I've always seen Yoda's species qualified. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:48, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

@Muboshgu: Unknown species seems more accurate.Yousef Raz (talk) 20:10, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 25 May 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved (non-admin closure) >>> Extorc.talk 14:06, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

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(non-admin closure) Grogu → Baby Yoda – While the WP:OFFICIALNAME name of the character in the series is Grogu, the indisputable WP:COMMONNAME of the character is "Baby Yoda". — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 20:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

• Strong oppose - Baby Yoda is never even said in the series. It's mostly a fan term. -- Zoo (talk) 20:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

  Well, there's lots of coverage that includes "Baby Yoda" as the character name but does not include include "Grogu". Even recently, here are two articles that do so. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 22:14, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

  It's only those websites that use the term. Not anyone from Disney or the show. Plus "baby Yoda" is at the beginning of the lead, which to me is how it should remain without needing to rename the article. -- Zoo (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

  Disney executives have used the name (much to the show creator's chagrin), but the WP:OFFICIALNAME is generally inferior to the WP:COMMONNAME in these sorts of things anyway. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. I disagree that it is a common name. It is only commonly used when the character is still unnamed. Neocorelight (Talk) 23:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. “Yoda” is not the name of the race of this baby. Showiecz (talk) 02:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
• Leaning oppose per the rationale of the opposes above. The name of the character is the name of the character. BD2412 T 03:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:27, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per lack of WP:PRECISION. To someone who is not as knowledgable of the subject as we likely are, an article titled "Baby Yoda" might be taken to be a baby Yoda. As in, Yoda as a baby. I think we need the official name to distinguish, regardless of how "common" the use of "Baby Yoda" may be today. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:13, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
• Strongly Opposed per lack of WP:PRECISION. If the page name is changed then people who read this article who aren’t familiar with the show would think the character is baby version of Yoda and not an original character. People really only called the character as Baby Yoda when the character name wasn’t revealed. Grogu was never called Baby Yoda in the show. SuliMinecraft (talk) 11:40, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose because a fan nickname should not be the title for an entire article about the character, unlike Mando / Din Djarin where they only call him "Mando" in the show.--Taynix (talk) 20:10, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose - He's never been called this in-universe and the nickname is far less prominent now that we know his actual name. Madbane54 (talk) 17:55, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose it would be confused with the babyhood of Yoda, when chatter about the Mandalorian dies down, what remains the the character's name, and the babyhood of a different character. -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 07:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
• Strong oppose Per Muboshgu, and Baby Yoda is just a fan nickname for the character which leads me to think it is just WP:FANCRUFT. Per WP:PRECISION the name should stay as Grogu. ― Kaleeb18^Talk_Caleb 22:52, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yodas species

The species becomes named in the Disney series mandalorian. To be precise it is in season 1 episode 3 at 2.16 minutes exactly when mando is returning to collect the bounty for Grogu. He receives a call saying “upon arrival take the Quarie to the client”.

The species is no longer unknown or unnamed so please go watch the episode for yourself and see. 120.18.25.5 (talk) 16:26, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

This is original research. Please find a third party reliable source for this. -- Dane ^talk 16:29, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Yodas species?

I have given an exact time to reference as to the name of the species. It is mentioned in season one episode 3 at 2 minutes 16 seconds. Please explain how this is not a reliable source? Also what would you consider a reliable source if a exact reference point from a Lucas films production is not reliable? 120.18.25.5 (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Please see our reliable sources page for how we determine reliable sources. I replied to your message on my talk page, but basically it has to be a third party source in compliance with our reliable sources policy. -- Dane ^talk 17:16, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Besides which, you are mistaken. The line is "upon arrival take the quarry to the client", "quarry" meaning "creature you have hunted and caught".

—VeryRarelyStable 22:48, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 19 April 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page is not moved. Consensus is clearly against a move at this time. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

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Grogu → Din Grogu – reflecting new character name based on adoption by Din Djarin. Steven a91 (talk) 10:21, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - Absolutely not the Wikipedia:COMMONNAME of the character, which is the precedent in other SW articles- see, Kylo Ren instead of "Ben Solo", "Princess Leia" instead of "Leia Organa." HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 13:18, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm all for it...Din Grogu Mulder1013 (talk) 13:57, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose in a potential WP:COMMONNAME meaning of WP:TOOSOON. If they are reliably and consistently referred to with "Din" we can re-discuss but at this point the common name hasn't changed (thanks for the useful examples also HadesTTW). Skynxnex (talk) 14:15, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Support: If WP:COMMONNAME would really apply here, the title of this article would be Baby Yoda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.138.194.162 (talk) 19:13, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Oppose This is way too early. If sources begin to reliably call him din then a move can be considered, but I would like to note that Wikipedia articles are not always 100% directly corresponded to a person/character's name [see Palpatine, examples given above, and even Din Djarin is under The Mandalorian].Yeoutie (talk) 21:33, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. If Disney and Lucasfilm people start calling him "Din Grogu" or selling "Din Grogu"-brand merch, or something along those lines, we can revisit. —VeryRarelyStable 22:23, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - per above. --IndexAccount (talk) 15:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose move, but support using Din Grogu in the lead while I agree that it's too soon to move the article, I do think that the lead should reflect his official full name. We would do it that way for any character who's common name is different than their "real" name. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, but keep the name in the lead: The name of the character is usually the most common. Since Grogu has been reffered by this name multiple times, It is better to keep it as Grogu. The name Din Grogu can be kept in the lead similar to Kylo Ren whose name Ben Solo is kept in the lead and Darth Vader whose name Anakin Skywalker is kept in the lead. JEDIMASTER2008 (talk) 05:17, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Support article name is not “Baby Yoda” thus article should be name as Din Grogu or surname it should be mentioned at the beginning. Please note that all Star Wars wiki already added the surname. Anna.gadom (talk) 21:14, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not connected with fan wikis and does not follow or emulate them. In particular, fan wikis typically take a "within-universe" perspective, as if Grogu were a real person, whereas Wikipedia by policy takes a real-world perspective, in which Grogu is a fictional character. —VeryRarelyStable 08:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

• Support because let’s be honest, if this went by WP:COMMONNAME, this article would be titled Baby Yoda. PedigreeWWEFigz87V2 (talk) 16:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Baby Yoda wouldn't be accepted. That is per WP:FANCRUFT. Common names are those which are widely used in-universe, not out-universe. That, however, is limited to exceptions. Eg: Din Djarin is referred to as The Mandalorian instead of Din Djarin since his real name is not much used in-universe. He is often referred to as Mando, Mandalorian, or some other names but rarely Din. JEDIMASTER2008 (talk) 04:01, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

• • No position on move, but support using Din Grogu in the lead per above. waddie96 ★ (talk) 17:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, but I do agree that the lead should be his full name of Din Grogu. --82.36.62.208 (talk) 21:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: "Grogu" is his obvious COMMONNAME, which is the same reason Anakin Skywalker is titled "Darth Vader" and Sheev Palpatine is titled by his surname. Group has been referred to by his (very new) a grand total of, what, one time? BOTTO _(T•C) 15:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

That being said, absolutely do use his name in the lead. BOTTO _(T•C) 15:35, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.