Talk:Hamburg Parliament

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On 17 March 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Bürgerschaft of Hamburg. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Updated details

Hi, I updated the details of the new president whose name (Mohaupt) already appeared on the page but the details fitted to the old president. The old one Röder to retire after the glace ice affair.

Best regards from Hamburg YOG'TZE (talk) 20:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Change Title to “State Parliament of Hamburg”

I think changing the title to “State Parliament of Hamburg” would make it clearer what this article is about. I am a German native speaker and the term “Hamburg Parliament” is far too far away from the original German term “Hamburgische Bürgerschaft”, while at the same time not even providing an adequate self-explanatory, non-literal translation of the term. “State Parliament of Hamburg” would provide this element of being self-explanatory, whereas a totally literal translation (“Hamburgish Citizenry”) would be very misleading for English-speakers, evoking thoughts about citizenship rather than about a state legislature within a federation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikifreakTranslator (talk • contribs) 17:11, 3 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:55, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hamburg Parliament → Bürgerschaft of Hamburg – Per WP:CONSISTENT. All other titles for the legislatures of German states us e their German name. Estar8806 (talk) 02:33, 17 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 13:41, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't particularly like the name "Hamburg Parliament", as it sounds like a parliament that is in Hamburg more than one that is for Hamburg (compare Frankfurt Parliament). However, it is the translation that they themselves use at https://www.hamburgische-buergerschaft.com/ It also seems reasonably widely used in WP:RS, and stylistic consistency between articles in Wikipedia is a poor reason to go against scholarly consensus. So I am unconvinced either way for now. More research/better arguments required. —Kusma (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kusma: If we are going to use the official translations, we need to change the title of the article of every German state legislature. The Landtag of Bavaria, for example, is officially called in English the Bavarian State Parliament,^[1] the Abgeordnetenhaus of Berlin is the Berlin House of Representatives,^[2] and the Bürgerschaft of Bremen is the Bremen Parliament.^[3] This last one is particularly relevant as it has the same official name in both German and English as the legislature of Hamburg (Bremische Bürgerschaft / Hamburgische Bürgerschaft in German, and Bremen Parliament / Hamburg Parliament in English).

Consistency between Wikipedia articles may not generally be a good enough reason to change an article’s title, but what reason is there to call the legislatures of Bremen and Hamburg by two completely different names when they have the same official names in both German and English? I support the move, but I’d be OK with renaming all other state legislatures to their official English names instead. I strongly oppose the status quo. Brainiac242 (talk) 13:58, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For a larger scale discussion of all German state legislatures, I would suggest to check more sources first (not just the self-identification). Is it necessary to maintain the distinction between different names in different states also in English? What do RS in English do when they talk about different state's differently-named, but functionally identical legislative bodies? (A third "consistent" option is to ignore the German name and the official translation and to say "State Parliament of XXX" or "Parliament of XXX" etc. for all sixteen of them). I haven't seen convincing arguments for either so far. —Kusma (talk) 16:38, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: More source analysis? — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 13:41, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. All other German state legislatures use their German names in their titles. Therefore, according to the WP:CONSISTENT guideline, if we are going to use official translations, we must change the titles of all German state legislature articles. For example, the Bürgerschaft of Bremen is known as the Bremen Parliament. It is important to note that the latter has the same official name in both German and English as the Hamburg legislature (Bremische Bürgerschaft/Hamburgische Bürgerschaft in German, and Bremen Parliament/Hamburg Parliament in English). I believe that we should strive for consistency and logical naming conventions across all articles. --Nagsb (talk) 07:28, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: On Google Scholar, "Hamburg Parliament" gets 186 results, and "Bürgerschaft of Hamburg", 6. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 08:48, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Maddy from Celeste: Is that also the case for all other state legislatures? Are "Bremen Parliament", "Bavarian State Parliament", and "Berlin House of Representatives", the most commonly used names for their respective legislatures? If so, perhaps we should rename all other state legislatures to their official English names instead. Brainiac242 (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Ngrams suggest that "Hamburg Parliament" is the WP:COMMONNAME among English-language sources. This is borne out by a cursory check of Google News. I was able to find a handful of English sources discussing the "Hamburg Parliament" without much trouble ([1], [2]), but a comparable search for "Hamburg Bürgerschaft" yielded only German-language results. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:21, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] ttps://www.bayern.landtag.de/en/index/

[2] ttps://www.parlament-berlin.de/english

[3] ttps://www.bremische-buergerschaft.de/index.php?id=6&L=1

[1]

[2]

[3]