Talk:Hot-melt adhesive/Archive 1

Archive 1

Article needs more info for Joe Consumer

As a "crafts" and "home owner" type consumer, I've not been happy with glue gun performance. I've even tried melting and burning plastic to find a better bond than my three dollar glue gun. Until today, I'd never heard of a high temperature glue gun. Since all glue sticks are the same, I buy them at the dollar store.

This article combined with what I've seen at the hardware store left me with the impression that there is only one kind of stick and gun for Joe Consumer, and that everything else, such as "high temperature," is for commercial use. For example, this sentence: "In industrial use, hot melt adhesives provide several advantages over solvent-based adhesives." ..."but not in home use," is inferred. "Some of the disadvantages involve thermal load of the substrate,..." --Huh? The bulk of the article seems geared toward commercial use, and gives little info (or too much jargon) to arm a consumer walking into a store. ...such as what choices he might find there, and perhaps looking in a different store might pay dividends.

Not being a chemist nor a manufacturer, the article explains that what I seek exists, but only in terms that seem untouchable to the retail consumers.

Anyway, excluding the name brands, I find the below concepts are what I'm seeking, a place to start:

"hot melt glue sticks... and selecting the right one for your application..."

1. Hot Melt Glue Product Overview
   

1. Hot Glue Background
   

1. Hot Melt Forms and Sizes
   

1. Hot Melt Application Cost
   

1. Polyamide Hot Melt Adhesive"
   

http://www.glu-stix.com/

"Be aware that many "frosty white" bargain style, ultra low cost glue sticks on the market are nothing more than melted polyethylene plastic which contains no actual adhesive. Although very inexpensive, this type of glue is such a low performance product, it's hardly worth buying. We do not sell this type of glue stick! As the price goes up a bit, the performance goes up a lot" "...Our Fast Set is specifically formulated for carton sealing and woodworking. Our Dura-Tac glue is the strongest non-polyamide glue on the market and is probably the best all around hot melt for the money."

www.glu-stix.com/shop/page/Hot_Melt_Glue_Overview.html

..."Polyamide Hot Melt Adhesive

For ultra high demand gluing projects such as high temperature environments, metal to metal, or any non-porous to non-porous requirement,..." http://www.glu-stix.com/shop/page/Polyamide_Glue.html

Disadvantages of Hot Melt Adhesives:

* Heat required to melt adhesive unsuitable for delicate applications * Limited adhesion strength when compared with epoxy, acrylics, polyurethanes, etc. * Can be susceptible to creep under load * Potential to have poor wetting properties * Some hot melt adhesives are susceptible to solvent attack

http://www.glu-stix.com/shop/page/Hot_Melt_Glue_Background.html

Dura-Tac High Strength Glue Sticks --

This high strength, durable hot melt adhesive bonds to most metals, plastics, ceramics, wood, and coated paper. It exhibits great shock resistance even at low ambient temperature. A favorite for... (read more)

Tuff-Tac High Performance Glue Sticks--

High performance hot melt adhesive for difficult substrates. Bonds to metal, plastics, ceramics, magnets, shells, fabric, ABS, PVC, foams, and most vinyls. Extremely strong bonding adhesive for porous... (read more)

Ultra-Tac Polyamide Glue Sticks--

Formulated for ultra high demand adhesive applications, this polyamide based glue stick stands up to high temperature, harsh climates and sticks like crazy to anything it touches! Great for auto... (read more)

AcriLux - For Rubber and Plastics--

If you need to glue rubber or plastics, look no further. This unique glue stick is made of pure acrylic resin. It sticks to difficult surfaces like no other glue stick made. This amazing... (read more)
http://www.glu-stix.com/shop/page/category/Category/1765e4b138152633395eee4fa8fa04d7.html

They see and organize glue sticks not as chemicals, but as problem solvers, tools. Me too.

Also: "Good adhesion to many substrates, e.g. metal, wood, vinyl, ABS, and treated polyethylene and polypropylene." ...what does "treated" mean?

Thanks!

Doug Bashford--68.127.85.141 (talk) 05:55, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Doug, thanks for your input on the article, however a lot of what you are asking for is outside the scope of Wikipedia. Please see WP:NOT, for what Wikipedia isn't. Wizard191 (talk) 17:51, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Wizard191. Yes, my notes should have been reduced in size. But could you please be more specific, nothing there jumped out at me. It seems your tone is dismissing most of what I was attempting to say? ...that some properties and characteristics are emphasized , while others are ignored?

For example, I think that to have a grasp of the characteristics of the basic kinds of glue sticks such as a "glue stick made of pure acrylic resin" or an extra sticky "polyamide based glue stick," and so forth is more important to the average user than whether "nonpolar polyolefin chains interact well with nonpolar substrates."

The concept I was trying to make was, this article only made sense to me after I visited the sites mentioned. For example, "Important properties - The hot melt adhesives have a number of important properties, making them suitable for different applications:" is accurate, but vague and not very instructive. Yet this is the intro/overview to a section. More instructive to the uninformed (like me) would be something like: "Different kinds of hot melt adhesives have different, specific properties, making each kind best suited to specific applications, yet poorly suited to others." And that is the info I was seeking; to arm an adhesive consumer for making the right choices, matching kinds of adhesive to specific applications. Keep in mind, previously I didn't even know there were choices! ...I just thought glue guns were crap. This level of ignorance requires punches, not hints.

Another example: bullet: "Melt viscosity, one of the most important properties....the wetting of the surfaces." I think in large part is talking about stickyness. Kinda important regarding adhesives. If so, shouldn't that be mentioned there?

Another example, very typical: "when a water-clear appearance is desired,..." Cool! Good useful characteristic. But whoops, next it tells the chemist how to mix up a batch of that yet again unnamed stuff, and that's all. That's very common. Is that really the most useful info regarding clearness?

Sometimes what I request (how to best find and consume it) is there but obfuscated in jargon. For example this sentence: "The nature of the polymer and the tackifier additive influences the nature of mutual molecular interaction and interaction with the substrate; e.g. the EVA together with terpene-phenol resin (TPR) tackifiers display acid-base interactions between the carbonyl groups of vinyl acetate and hydroxyl groups of TPR, complexes are formed between phenolic rings of TPR and hydroxyl groups on the surface of aluminium substrates, and interactions between carbonyl groups and silanol groups on surfaces of glass substrates are formed." ...could read: "This stuff works well on aluminum and/or glass." I think. But I have no idea what kind of glue stick/adhesive "this stuff" is. I doubt most of those listed characteristics in that section are on the product's bag. Wiki is NOT about useless esoteric info, I'm pretty sure. Rarely is a list of good facts; good explanation.

I have no problem with chemists talking to chemists, (which is NOT what Wiki is about, (thanks again!)) my problem is when info useful to Joe Sixpack is ignored or obfuscated.

Doug Bashford--68.127.85.141 (talk) 23:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mean to blow you off, but it was/is tough to follow exactly what you are saying, because you don't articulate your ideas well. I thought you wanted more commercial "info for Joe Consumer", which is why I redirected you to WP:NOT. However, it seems like you just wanted a less technical article that is structured better and has more information; yes? If so, that a perfectly legit request. Unfortunately, I haven't seen anyone take any interest in improving this article recently (as in the last 6 months), so you might be better served by implementing your suggestions yourself. Wizard191 (talk) 23:59, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

This article is heavily biased to industrial uses of hot melt. Consumer uses need to be covered properly. Stub Mandrel (talk) 19:57, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Basic English Composition

The combination of technical jargon and pompously ornate vocabulary makes this article largely useless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.229.114 (talk) 05:04, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Useless for what? __ Just plain Bill (talk) 13:03, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

If you have an understanding of polymer chemistry and want basic information to support your work, this a great introduction. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.96.68.104 (talk) 23:33, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

"Good wetting of the substrate is essential for forming a satisfying bond between the adhesive and the substrate. More polar compositions tend to have better adhesion due to their higher surface energy." This is extremely confusing. Is it an error? Low surface energy liquids provide better wetting (as stated further down in this article). It's possible that the adhesion will be stronger due to high surface energy despite worse wetting, but if that's what was meant, these opposing sentences can't be jammed together like this. Can someone that understands (is this an error?) either correct it or improve the clarity?

Piojo (talk) 16:30, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Invented by whom and when

So far, I've found multiple claims for the inventor of HMA: Miles Kent in 1894, for which I found a weak reference, Thomson Racievic in the 1980s, and Robert Brooklyns. I shouldn't be surprised if there were an element of truth in each of these, but I would love it if someone were able to stitch the story together, with better citations. --Wcoole (talk) 22:04, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

The first mention I've seen of the hot glue gun in its present form is from December 1965 in Popular Science magazine. I believe that is pretty close to its first appearance in the market aimed at household use and hobbyists. __Just plain Bill (talk) 02:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Marketing Fluff

This article seems to have a lot of vague language and marketing fluff.

I came hoping for specifics about the tensile strengths of different glues, and instead I got phrases like "sufficient strength", "Better", "Increased", "Low" "Lower".

It's great that you can tell me what dollyolefin emitters are bound to the polyolyoxenfree complexes, but it seems ultimately meaningless if the core of why you'd care is given such minimal substantive data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.105.216.30 (talk) 21:43, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Unnamed Topic

The first sentence in the second paragraph under the heading "Glue Gun Specifications and Usage" makes no sense. Please fix it - I want to know what the author meant.

Tried to fix it. Any clearer now? __Just plain Bill (talk) 13:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The "citation needed" for hardening time is stupid. It is an OBSERVED fact, similar to water is wet, and the sun emits light. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.134.139.71 (talk) 14:29, 8 January 2009 (UTC)