Talk:Hotchkiss H35

Military history: Land vehicles / European / French / World War II C‑class

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H35 in the IDF

From Moshe Givati - In their hands the steel was tempered [MoD 1998, p 40-42]: on 15 June 1948 a ship from Marseilles brought to Israel 10 Hotchkiss H39 tanks (which means they weren't bought from the French forces in Syria). The tanks were secretly unloaded in Tel Aviv and brought to a workshop. The tanks were in poor state, many internal components were rusted. By the beginning of Operation Danny (July 1948), 5 were made operational and assigned to the 8th Armored Brigade (82th battalion, light tanks company). Tanks were brought with HE ammunition only, so improvised AP ammunition was manufactured by replacing French projectiles with American 37 mm AP projectiles.

According to Oleg Granovskiy - Names, Designations and Service Figures of IDF Armored Vehicles (Russian; http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/Armor/1948-1952_tanks.html), the tanks were retired in 1952, although most of them were removed from active service already in December 1948. On 1 March 1949 only one was listed as operational. Bukvoed 09:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I made a mistake in supposing a Syrian connection. I'll change the text accordingly.--MWAK 10:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalization

MWAK, I still think char should not be capitalized. It is not a proper name, but a well-established common noun (char à boeufs is an ox cart, for example) and as such is never capitalized in French (unlike in German). PpPachy 17:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, the word char as such should of course not be capitalised and, again as such, is not a proper name. But when this word is the first of the total designation, which designation does function as a proper name, it should be capitalised. So an individual tank would be a char léger, but the type would have Char léger modèle 1935 H as its proper name, it would be the Char léger modèle 1935 H. When however Hotchkiss H35 is used as a less formal type designation, it would be correct to put char in front of it without capitalisation, like in: C'est un char Hotchkiss H35. But in the lead section of this article, Char léger modèle 1935 H is the full type designation.--MWAK 08:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - Are you referring specifically to WP:CAPS? It still looks wrong to me. Full, official designations were so seldom used in France at the time that I would tend to use English translations, with only one reference to the official designation. Hence I started the 25 mm Hotchkiss anti-tank gun article instead of Canon de 25 mm SA mle 34. Then again a lot of people seem to disagree with me :) PpPachy 21:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, these rules simply reflect convention. If a word is a proper name it is conventionally capitalised. When a proper name begins with a word that is commonly used when not being a proper name, this word looks a bit strange when it suddenly appears with a capital. Obviously using the full designation always, would be a bit awkward. On the other hand English translations should be avoided unless they are themselves very common. Reading "Tank Type B Mark I Second Instantiation" most people would be hard pressed to recognise it for the Char B1 bis :o). Nice article, by the way! (Could use some capitalisation though ;o) --MWAK 07:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ironies of History

It ironic how the hotchkiss h35 was used in world war II it was taken by the Germans when they invaded France. The tanks were then used by the Germans for the rest of the war. They were later given back to France after the war. But the ironic part is that in 1948 the war of Independence of Israel, the French then sold the hotchkiss h35 to Israel to use in the fighting. If you ever go to the Tank musuem in Israel, you will see a hotchkiss h35, now what was interesting part is that a person who came on the tour of the tank musuem, knew his tanks he used a coin and said this tank was used by the germans in world war II. he then scrached off some of the paint on the tank to show the german swasticka. Its ironic because that tank was used to give Israel its independence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Endersshadow313 (talk • contribs) 08:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there is a deep historical irony in all of this ...As an aside, it should be noted that the Germans did not use the swastika on their tanks, but a national symbol, the Balkenkreuz.--MWAK (talk) 13:43, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

service during the French Indochina War of 1945-54

Found a french wed page abut AFV in indochina http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/afvs.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Man74 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting! Made a mention of it in the main text.--MWAK (talk) 18:41, 4 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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