Talk:Jeremiah Moss

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A fact from Jeremiah Moss appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 March 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in 2007, Jeremiah Moss started Jeremiah's Vanishing New York, a blog that functions as a "digital obituary column" for old New York City small businesses lost to gentrification?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/March. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jeremiah Moss.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 12:46, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... that Jeremiah Moss created the blog Jeremiah's Vanishing New York to document and mourn the changes to New York City caused by gentrification, particularly the loss of small businesses? Source: “Here’s an old story: Your favorite dive bar/record shop/little Cuban restaurant gets turned into a Citibank/Apple store/luxury condominium. You pass through denial, anger, bargaining, depression, then inevitably settle into acceptance.
For nearly a decade, Jeremiah Moss has been telling that story on his brilliantly dismal blog, Jeremiah’s Vanishing New York, a digital obituary column for the various mom-and-pop concerns that have fallen prey to the city’s endless search for higher rents. A wistful man with a vulture’s eye for carrion, Mr. Moss has dedicated years to recording the demise of famous institutions like the Roseland Ballroom in Midtown Manhattan, which will soon become a high-rise building, and unfamiliar treasures like Family Jewels, a clothing store in Chelsea, which is scheduled to close at the end of April.”
The New York Times
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/That's So Raven

Created by Thriley (talk). Self-nominated at 06:18, 8 February 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article is new, long, and well sourced with no copyvio detected. Both hooks are cited and interesting. ~~QPQ is pending~~ qpq is done now, so this nom's good to go. BuySomeApples (talk) 04:37, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment. As a slight nitpick, BuySomeApples, I only see one hook above - typo on the "both hooks cited and interesting" perhaps? (Unless I've gone totally crazy and am missing the extra hook myself...)
- Also, more generally, I think the suggested hook is a bit too long. Brevity & punchiness is better for DYK; could I suggest something like:
  - ALT1: ... that Jeremiah Moss's blog Jeremiah's Vanishing New York documents changes to New York City, such as the loss of small businesses to gentrification?
- 147 characters rather than 185. SnowFire (talk) 14:18, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire: That was a typo! But I guess now its technically correct. ALT1 looks good to me, and is a lot more concise. BuySomeApples (talk) 18:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both. I would much prefer a mention of mourning, as the blog really isn’t just documenting. Moss is marking and mourning deep structural changes that he believes are tearing a hole into the fabric of New York City. Thriley (talk) 03:55, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but "mourn" is a little melodramatic, and the linked NYT article makes clear he's also an activist about it rather than passively mourning it. I was more thinking that him disliking it was semi-obvious, since it'd be weird to lovingly document stuff you hope gets destroyed. I guess there could be an ALT1b/c versions that change "documents" to "mourns" or "criticizes" or the like:
- ALT1b: ... that Jeremiah Moss's blog Jeremiah's Vanishing New York documents and mourns changes to New York City, such as the loss of small businesses to gentrification?
- ALT1c: ... that Jeremiah Moss's blog Jeremiah's Vanishing New York documents and criticizes changes to New York City, such as the loss of small businesses to gentrification?
I still prefer the original ALT1, but I'll step back and let reviewer BuySomeApples pick the best hook; I was just commenting as a random passerby. SnowFire (talk) 07:32, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All of the hooks are decent to me, I think it just comes down to personal preference. I really like ALT1 or ALT1b, but I'd lean towards the second one because the nominator prefers it. Hooks can also be a little more melodramatic than articles, because they're supposed to be "hooky". This one still needs a qpq though @Thriley: before I can approve it. BuySomeApples (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BuySomeApples: I just did a QPQ. Thank you for understanding the hook, not only is it more hooky, but it is an accurate description of the blog which truly does function as a mourning of the loss of old New York. Thriley (talk) 00:23, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No problem! This nom's good to go now. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:36, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BuySomeApples and Thriley: I'd be careful to stick by MOS:SAID—we barely even use "documented" and "noted" for the most reliable of reliable sources. Any way to reword this a little more ambivalently? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 09:34, 20 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: Documented, as in photographed and and written about, not acceptable? I’ve definitely seen “document” used like that on Wiki. Thriley (talk) 17:14, 26 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Thriley: well, the rationale given at MOS:SAID is that to write that someone insisted, noted, observed, speculated, or surmised can suggest the degree of the person's carefulness, resoluteness, or access to evidence, even when such things are unverifiable. "documented" feels the same as "noted"—fine if only taken literally, but also carries a colloquial, unverifiable subtext of meticulous observance. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 23:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Theleekycauldron: I understand. He's authoritative, but not that authoritative. I think this is a better hook: ALT2: that in 2007, Jeremiah Moss started Jeremiah's Vanishing New York, a blog that functions as a "digital obituary column" for old New York City small businesses lost to gentrification? Thriley (talk) 04:34, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Thriley! ALT2 looks good :) I made some copyedits, you might want to make sure you've got curly quotes turned off. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 08:10, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]