Talk:Joker in other media

Pictures

Is there a reason that the 3-piece photo of Romero, Nicholson and Ledger was removed? It seemed like a very useful photo with very clear imagery of the facial and clothing design of the character in each incarnation, a similar tiled image is used in the Superman in other media article. In particular it has been replaced by a side-shot of Nicholson which doesn't really detail anything about the character except from the side. If you aren't using the 3-piece I'd recommend at least using the pictures that form it as they were incredibly fitting and descriptive of the character in each medium Darkwarriorblake (talk) 00:13, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Long and the short: Wrong place.

The infobox at best should be genaric. Given the history of this character and what is covered, 1 adaptation type - live action - isn't going to be right and trying to pin down 1 compromise image isn't going to happen. That leaves a mosaic of 6+ images which would be better as spot images.

In hindsight I should have moved the triptych down and removed the Ledger solo as redundant.

- J Greb (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, though I think the 3-piece in the main body would be better and very informative compared to the three there now. My 2 cents Darkwarriorblake (talk) 00:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

What's trivia and what's not

If anything is trivia certainly it's the OnStar commercial and the one-time actors. Wikipedia has a Category:Batman_fan_films which either needs to be filled out with the more relevant productions such as the ones I added today or deleted entirely I guess if the rule is that junk nobody's seen which has a corporate approval stamp on it's butt gets on wikipedia while junk nobody's seen that doesn't have a corporate approval butt stamp gets deleted. --Nerd42 (talk) 00:11, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

A few things:

• Generally it works that if a bold change is removed, a discussion happens before it is re-added. In this cas the bold edit was to add the fan film section.
• A Wikipedia article is not a link farm. Links within the body should be to Wikipedia articles or, rarely, the odd article on another like site. IMDb and YouTube are neither.
• As a reference, IMDb is not considered reliable. YouTube isn't much better, especially it linkss to the film only to prove it exsists.
• Just because a fanfic exists does not mean it is proper to include it here. Is there anything notable about them other than they exist?
• OnStar and the BoP material is marginal at best but are still more reasonable that random fanfics.

- J Greb (talk) 02:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Somebody needs to start an actual link farm, so that the oft-repeated mantra "Wikipedia is not a link farm" will have some meaning. The issue here is that Wikipedia, in general, is pretty arbitrary and random in how and if it's rules are enforced. If I wanted to get something mentioned or included, I would have to fight, fight, fight and keep fighting for it to be included and stay included, and what that does to the actual content is pretty lousy because most of the time no one cares enough to fight to make the site better. Unsourced crap gets to stay on hundreds of articles on obscure subjects for years with a simple "this article needs sources" tag on it, while in other articles, it's just randomly deleted by the Wiki Police. Accessibility of Real People - people who aren't dedicated Wikipedia contributors prepared to wage war to get their edits to stay - actually contributing seems to be approaching nill these days, unless you find an obscure subject and stay under the radar. Apparently this isn't obscure enough of a subject. Ho-hum. --Nerd42 (talk) 05:09, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

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Colorado Shootings

The man involved in the shooting identified himself as The Joker when he was arrested, is it worth noting somewhere here, because in the main article it doesn't fit and as the news is media should it be here.Sean 16:50, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

If he identified himself as a potato would we add it to that article? What an idiot identifies himself as when doing/looking nothing like that thing does not make it relevant to any Joker related article on this Wikipedia. It is not a major component of that event either. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 16:58, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I strongly agree with DWB. We don't even know if he actually did identify himself as the Joker - the statement has been attributed to a New York police commissioner. --Williamsburgland (talk) 15:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Brave and the Bold section length

Is it me, or is the section on Brave and the Bold WAY too long, with too much detail? Any objections to shortening it? dstumme (talk) 21:10, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

NO objections, its just people reciting episodes event for event, it should only contain notable developments about the character so go nuts. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:22, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Jerome in Gotham

Jerome's character is at least somewhat based on the Joker and showrunner Bruno Heller stated that the introduction of Jerome's character is and I quote "the true beginning of the Joker saga — the first page of the first chapter of the story that brings the villain known as Joker to life. And that’s what I’ll say about that!”1 Combine that with the fact that the Joker link was sourced to begin with, there is absolutely no reason NOT to include Jerome in the Gotham section.Darkknight2149 — Preceding undated comment added 03:29, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

As I said in the edit summary, see the relevant discussion that occurred at the Gotham article discussion. Any change to this article regarding appearances in Gotham will be determined there, in order to avoid any future confusion. I'm removing it again, and we should use the discussion to arrive at a productive solution to the problem. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 13:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

...And Snowy seems to have missed the discussion about this, adding yet another source which - as before - doesn't explicity denote Jerome as the Joker. The text of the source is very, very unclear on this:

""We're going to find out how the hell Jerome, the proto-Joker we met earlier in this season, connects with the Joker as people known him. That's the big focus of the beginning of the second season. We're going to tell the story of how the Joker came to be," Heller says, before pausing and adding, "That's teaser enough, I think.""³

So, until Bruno says, 'Cameron Monghan is playing the Joker', we cannot add him as such. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 16:43, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you should take this to the already-existing discussion at Talk:Gotham (TV series)#Jerome is the Joker?. Alex|The|Whovian 16:48, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I am following that discussion, but thought it prudent to post after Snowy made almost half a dozen edits here in support of his viewpoint there. If I were less Asuming of Good Faith, I'd have suspected an end-run, but instead, I just decided to open discussion here. I don't mind us awaiting an end of discussion there at the Gotham discussion page. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:27, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Joker in other media

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Joker in other media's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Jolin1":

• From The Joker (The Dark Knight): Jolin, Dan (January 2008). "Fear Has a Face". Empire. 223: 87–88. Retrieved July 8, 2008.
• From The Dark Knight (film): Jolin, Dan (January 2008). "Fear Has a Face". Empire. 223. Bauer Verlagsgruppe: 87–88. Retrieved July 8, 2008.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 08:26, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

"Antagonist"

I want to start this off by saying that we are doing great. I think this messy article has come a long way in the last couple of days. However, what I want to address is the current edit war regarding the word "antagonist." To quote Wikipedia guidelines (more specifically WP:ANTAGONIST):

"Interpretations in the form of labels (e.g. protagonist, villain, main character) should be avoided."

As you can see, we can't place such labels on the character. Darkknight2149 (talk) 13:17, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Dear IP User 108.26.174.18

The backstory piece you keep adding is pretty interesting. It adds information about the "character" that the current copy mostly focusing on Ledger's performance perhaps does not. That being said, it needs credible sources in order to be kept on Wikipedia. I'm also a little concerned that most of the copy appears to be a near-direct copy paste of one or more non-Wikipedia "Batman Wiki" sites. The content appears to be original research with no reliable sources. You have gone well beyond the 3RR. Let's talk about it here or I think the next step is blocking to avoid further disruption. Belltoes (talk) 20:10, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

This user has made it very clear that he or she is not going to stop edit warring. We have warned the user numerous times and started two different discussions on this Talk Page and the user is continuing his/her behaviour. While I'm tied up at this very moment, I will be filing a report today. Darkknight2149 (talk) 21:44, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Belltoes @Darkwarriorblake The user has now been reported at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#108.26.174.18 reported by User:Darkknight2149. Darkknight2149 (talk) 14:24, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

@User:108.26.174.18

Sock Puppetry

I strongly suspect that 173.48.97.100 is either a sock puppet or a meatpuppet of 108.26.174.18, who has been blocked several times for edit warring on this article, on The Joker (The Dark Knight) and on Sith. Not only is 173.48.97.100 editing the same articles as 108.26.174.18, but the user just attempted to further the same edit war as 108.26.174.18 here and here.

This is not the first time that 108.26.174.18 has used sock puppets. The user commonly uses 108.49.185.106. I will be paying close attention to all of these IPs. If anything gets out of hand, I will be filing a sock report. In the meantime, I'd suggest watching out for edit warring on any of the mentioned articles. DarkKnight2149 23:03, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Joker in Arkham Knight

I would like to add that besides the fact that a lot of Joker's description in the Arkham section of his appearances is unsourced, I don't know why a big fuss is being made of the description I added to his role in Arkham Knight. Besides Joker following Batman around everywhere in the story, he clearly also manipulates his perception of the real world and the very environment he is in. Billboards and statues all around Gotham City will have Joker's face in them, and thugs on the streets will randomly turn into him every now and then. Please stop changing my edits. (186.154.31.245 (talk) 18:45, 15 January 2016 (UTC))

The hallucinations are already mentioned, there is no need for additional WP:OR commentary based upon your personal experience in the game. Scr★pIron^IV 19:24, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

While I honestly don't have an opinion on the alleged original research as I have yet to play the game, I will simply point out that "an hallucination" is poor grammar. "A" would be grammatically correct in this context because the "h" is not silent. DarkKnight2149 00:35, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

You are incorrect on that matter. It is predicated on the sound, not the letter. The soft "h" (hallucination) is preceded by "an" - the same way a hard "u" (user or university) is preceded by "a" - although some words can be confusing, based on regional dialect. "An hotel" and "A hotel" can both be correct. "An hallucination" is grammatically correct, for people who properly pronounce the word. Scr★pIron^IV 13:45, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

I just have to chime in here with a huge aside, as I think I may have been the one to write "an hallucination" (at least, I can't imagine saying simply 'a'). As noted, it depends on if you aspirate the 'H'. I suppose the best example would be a historic / an historic. Looking at the corpus for both American and British English, it appears "a hallucination" is vastly more popular than "an hallucination". However, I would like to point out there is more to it than vowel vs. consonant or if you aspirate the 'H'. Fowler in A Dictionary of Modern English Usage (first written in the 1926) notes that "an" was used formally if the first syllable was unaccented. Hence why words like hysterical, hotel and historic cause so much confusion -- the emphasis is on the second syllable. So, while not wrong per se, it's not common. But it may be more "right" depending on what grammar rules you adhere to. Of course, being a minority on a lot of these rules, I happen to think things like hard grammar rules should be more fluid. Belltoes (talk) 03:18, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

unreferenced: Online games section

I've removed the following section to the discussion page for reference work:

Online games

Mark Hamill once again reprises the role for DC Universe Online, a free-to-play MMORPG released in 2011. In the game's trailer, the Joker is shown with Harley Quinn using a rocket launcher to attack the Flash. After an explosion set off by Black Adam kills both the Flash and Green Lantern, the Joker wakes up and pushes Quinn's corpse aside (whether she protected him willingly or the Joker used her as a shield is left up to debate) as he coughs from the smoke. He looks through his goggles to see Deathstroke hitting a suspended Batman with a bent steel pole. Claiming the sole right to kill Batman, the Joker promptly picks up the rocket launcher and fires it. The Joker and Lex Luthor are the only survivors. In present Gotham City, he takes over a decrepit amusement park with Harley. In the hero campaign, the players help Batman in fighting the Joker who attacks the Special Crimes Unit’s inaugural ball in the Regal hotel. The Joker later collaborates with T. O. Morrow in order to develop a new type of Joker Venom and pays Deathstroke to dispose of the Riddler. Besides Harley, the Joker is served by Joker Anarchists, Joker Hiding Schizos, Jokandroids, Joker Dawgs, Joker Derangers, Joker Lunatics, Joker Madcaps, Joker Stooges, Joker Wags, Joker Wisecrackers, J1N1 Robots, Lefty, Righty, and Fullhouse.

The Joker can also be used in Legends PVP matches, a form of short player versus player matches where the players use the weapons, powers and abilities of iconic DC heroes or villains. The Joker is available for 70 Marks of Legends and is the only character that can switch between two movement sets: acrobatics, in which he fights with a crowbar and using the One Handed fighting skill, or flying, in which he uses dual pistols to fight. The Joker can be used with two skins: his normal appearance and Arkham Joker, dressed with a torn asylum inmate uniform and a slightly grittier look. If a player as Joker defeats an enemy player as Robin while using the crowbar, the player as Joker earns a feat for "recreating" Jason Todd's murder at the hands of the Joker from the graphic novel, A Death in the Family.

The Joker appears as a playable character in the multiplayer online battle arena game Infinite Crisis, voiced again by Richard Epcar. The Gaslight Earth version of the character is voiced by Fred Tatasciore, and the Atomic Earth version is voiced by Nolan North.

This section has been a magnet for trivia and OR, and it shouldn't return to the article without heavy amounts of references. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:23, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@Jack Sebastian I agree that this section definitely needs to be sourced. But, to be fair, I do think the article has improved over what it used to be in terms of unreferenced material and original research. The article was worse, though improvement isn't the same thing as completion. You missed the giant edit war that occurred when an IP-jumping vandal kept trying non-stop to add the same original research and personal analysis to this article. It took several blocks and page protection to get them to stop.

All of that aside, more sources are indeed necessary. I'm busy at the moment but finding sources for some of this information shouldn't be difficult. I'll see what I can do if I have the time. DarkKnight2149 21:48, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Jerome

The show hasn't directly stated if Jerome Valeska is the Joker or not (though, to be honest, I doubt he is). That being said, directly stating he is or isn't violates WP:OR. I think we should just leave the Gotham section as ambiguous in this regard as possible or to just remove it until we get official answers. DarkKnight2149 19:05, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

I mightily disagree with leaving it ambiguous. You may not recall the enormous shitstorm edit-warring and discussion that followed Monaghan's portrayal of Valeska on Gotham, but I certainly do. We have absolutely explicit references that Valeska isn't the Joker, and they are from the showrunners themselves. if (and only if) the showrunners, being equally explicit in reliable sources, change their mind, will we take note of that. This is an encyclopedia, and not at all the place for ambiguity. We do not hedge bets, or seek to position ourselves for a scoop on social media. Until we have word from the show's creators that Valeska is the Joker, he cannot even be hinted as being that character. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 19:11, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

I recall that edit war. And I also don't recall any sources stating he isn't the Joker. And Wikipedia is a place for ambiguity when we don't have official answers. We never assume anything, per WP:OR. DarkKnight2149 19:15, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Updated discussion

Main page: Talk:Gotham (TV series) § The Joker

DarkKnight2149 03:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Joker in Gotham.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:21, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

To avoid an edit war...

...why exactly was this revert made? Especially without an edit summary? Everything stated in my edit was true, and while some may argue that Origins Blackgate isn't as big of a game as the others in its series, it is indeed a canon entry and is significant enough to warrant more than a mere mention. I personally think my explanation was warranted, since that game is its own thing with its own story. Furthermore, the expanded explanations of this games's events are also mentioned here and here, so my main intent was to make things consistent. Hopefully that clears things up. ---The Pastrami-Eating Bulldog 04:37, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

I added it back, but please try to refrain from using the "agonist" terminology. Lutesque (talk) 02:01, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Infobox image

I agree that Cameron Monaghan's "J" from Gotham should be included in the infobox image among the major actors that have portrayed the Joker. However, I believe that the pictures of Jerome and Jeremiah should be removed. Jerome has, on many occasions, been confirmed to not be the Joker; he was merely the series' early homage to the character.

The photo of Jeremiah, on the other hand, is redundant given that Jeremiah and J are essentially the same character, the only difference being that J retains scattered memories of his past as Jeremiah. For comparison, Jack Nicholson's Joker is obviously in the infobox image but his previous persona as Jack Napier is not, as including Napier would be redundant.

Lastly, this article is exclusively for media adaptations of the Joker; characters that take inspiration from or pay homage to him are not truly the Joker. As far as Warner Bros. and DC Entertainment are concerned, the only "official" iteration of the Joker on Gotham is J in the series finale, as evidenced by his inclusion in DC's Put on a Happy Face celebratory video for the character's 80th anniversary. It is because of these points mention that the photos of Jerome and pre-J Jeremiah should be removed.JokEobard (talk) 16:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I also think it's undue for three versions played by Cameron Monaghan to be in the image, especially given he's one of the less iconic actors to play the role. Barry Keoghan (The Batman), Zach Galifianakis (LEGO Batman Movie), and Mark Hamill (Batman: Arkham Asylum) are all viable replacements for one or two of the Monaghan images. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 07:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

"Arthur Feck" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Arthur Feck has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 20 § Arthur Feck until a consensus is reached. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:57, 20 March 2023 (UTC)