Talk:Jonah Paffhausen

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Original article released under dual GFDL and Creative Commons; see [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.162.164.169 (talk) 22:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 18:56, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jonah Paffhausen → Jonah (Paffhausen) – Tradition for orthodox persons. Hint from commons:Category talk:Jonah (Paffhausen) Estopedist1 (talk) 09:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

possible interested users: user:Sacerdos79--Estopedist1 (talk) 09:43, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

oppose WP:COMMONNAME says "...the article title is usually the name of the person, or of the place, or of whatever else the topic of the article is..."
WP:MOSAT says the "...practice of using specialized names is often controversial, and should not be adopted unless it produces clear benefits outweighing the use of common names..."
We placed an article at Germany, not Deutschland, even though Deutschland might please readers whose first language is German, who learned English as a second language.
We placed an article at Mark Twain, the penname of Samuel Clemens, as that is the name he is universally known by.

Paffhausen, however, would be known as Jonah Paffhausen by almost everyone, except the small minority of people from within the Orthodox church. This is the wikipedia, intended for all people who can read English, not the Orthodox-Church-opedia, intended only for readers who are intimately familiar with an arcane detail of the Orthodox Church. That choosing the name Jonah Paffhausen might please them should be completely irrelevant when it is jarring and inconvenient for over 99.9 percent of the wikipedia's readers. Geo Swan (talk) 10:04, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

These debates seem to be endless even in languages and countries that are more familiar with Orthodoxy. In Orthodox countries it would be quite normal to use the name Jonah (Paffhausen) and I do think that the kind of name should be standard for monastics from those countries and traditions. The arguments against it in the category talk are not convincing to me, and to be quite honest, are also not expressed in a respectful manner towards Orthodox people (many of whom are also native English speakers), Geo Swan. Still, in this particular case I am against renaming. The main reason for this is that many Orthodox monastics and hierarchs in the West do not follow the Eastern, mostly Slavic (because it is also not followed in the Romanian Orthodox Church, for example) tradition. They tend to use their monastic name and their surname together, see also Kallistos Ware, Seraphim Rose, etc. And even if they themselves keep the tradition (in the case of Paffhausen this CV – https://hts.edu/metropolitanjonah – could be a proof), their publishers certainly do not, meaning that prolific authors like Ware, Rose and Paffhausen (just a few examples) are all known without their surname in the brackets. So, here I would keep the name the way it currently is whereas in Russian, Ukrainian or even in Estonian, Latvian, Polish and Finnish Wikipedia Jonah (Paffhausen) or Jonah (archbishop) would be a standard. -- Toomas (talk) 20:42, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as above. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:40, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

BLP content dispute (March 2024)

A content dispute appears to occur in this article. See here and here (and there are several others). The content dispute has been brought twice to WP:BLPN but never discussed here. So, please discuss here any sourcing, due weight, or other WP:BLP concerns in favor or against inclusion of specific content. A consensus could emerge. Please resort to BLPN again if no consensus can be built. Cheers! JFHJr (㊟) 22:12, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll comment on the latest 2 diffs (above), regarding content that was reverted as objectionable:

1) the proposed content presents undue weight because the subject's retirement makes plain that he retired amid his own doctrinal controversy, and the nitty gritty is not worth much weight within the confines of a human being's biographical encyclopedia entry; and

2) the proposed content is supported only by references that fail WP:RS for BLP purposes — see WP:BLPSPS and if still doubt, ask about each one at WP:RSN. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 03:02, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]