Talk:Kankakee, Illinois

Illinois Mid‑importance

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Untitled

i agree this place does lie in a greater chicago region. im trying to figure out how many people live in a 300 mile radius of downtown chicago to see how many people there are this megolopolis region would include detroit. but not winsor,canada and certainly not pittsburgh im trying to figure out for my geo political studies. this place seems to lie about same distance away as kenosha, wisconsin. 99.51.212.6 (talk) 03:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.51.212.6 (talk) 03:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Arts and Culture in Kankakee

I am adding some information about the arts and culture in Kankakee. Does anyone find an issue with this info being posted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TylerMc86 (talk • contribs) 22:02, 3 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that new Talk threads should be placed at the bottom of Talk pages. Also, please sign your posts by adding four tildes (~) at the end of it. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 14:37, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, or I wouldn't have reverted it. You need to make an argument based in policy, guidelines and reliable sources for the inclusion of the material you wish to add. It isn't up to me to show it doesn't belong. It's up to you to show it does. John from Idegon (talk) 15:26, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For the sake of sparing other editors the effort of reviewing the page's edit history, could we perhaps get an excerpt of the contested material and the arguments against its inclusion? DonIago (talk) 17:08, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've wasted enough time arguing with the SPA. If you wish to sink some of your time you are welcome to. I'll be happy to answer any actual arguments that are proffered. Despite having been left the standard welcoming links and a link to teahouse, TylerMc86 has not even attempted to enquire anywhere as to how to do this and has stated clearly that he has a COI on the contents he is adding. In addition he has made some POINTy edits to headings. Sorry. If you want to hold his hand feel free. I have limits as to how much IDHT I'll take before I stop helping a noob. He passed it. John from Idegon (talk) 17:38, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

First off you haven't been helpful once.

Second, if you want to start name calling we can certainly do that.

Third, I went back and explained that the reason for it to be added back in was that this was all unique information about this city. They weren't opinions, they are facts about artistic and cultural information. I even went back again and cited links to several of the entires.

Fourth, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Encyclopedia is "a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge or treats comprehensively a particular branch of knowledge usually in articles arranged alphabetically often by subject"

Fifth, you may think I'm a SPA but I could certainly make time on Wikipedia all about following you around.

Lastly, I see that Doniago asked you to give your reasons to include the info. Unless you are Mr. Wikipedia, I think you owe an explanation. I believe you told me that it wasn't relevant information because it hadn't been published in newspapers outside of Chicago.

I'll reply to an arguement. The vast majority of your edits are to this article. That means yours is a single - purpose account, or SPA. (You do realize thar words in blue are links and they are put there to help you understand things?) You stated you are active in community theatre groups in this city, and that is the content you are trying to add without secondary sources. That means you have a conflict of interest, or COI. If you look at the edit history of this article, you will see that I have made edits to it periodically for over three years. How am I following you around? Regestered editors such as you and I have something called a watchlist. When a change of any kind is made to an article on your watchlist, you are notified. I edit primarily US settlement articles and US school articles. I have roughly 4500 articles on my watchlist. You can find your watchlist at Special:Watchlist.

It can be disheartening to have your additions reverted, but instead of getting angry, perhaps assuming good faith (which is required) that myself and the other editor here are telling you the truth would help. I hate Wikipedia's motto "The encyclopedia anyone can edit" because so many people interpret that as meaning they can add whatever they want. Getting reverted is part of the process here. There are guidelines for settlement articles linked above. We fall into the first group under your Webster's definition. Note that the first part of the definition does not contain the word comprehensive. Wikipedia strives to provide an overview of all information published about a given subject. I have no objection to the mention of the fact that there are community theatre groups in Kankakee, as long as a reliable secondary source is provided. A local newspaper article about it would be fine. However, if you wish to discuss the names of the theatre groups, that I have a problem with. Unless you can cite sources geographically removed from Kankakee showing that these individual groups have been noticed (hence indicating that they are important to the world, not just the Chicago metro area), listening the individual groups would be a violation of our policy on what Wikipedia is not, specifically WP:NOTDIR and WP:NOTGUIDEBOOK. I've had a fair amount of personal experience with non profit organizations, and far and away, most small ones are at least somewhat unstable. So if you added the names of the 4 groups in existence today, what is to say that info will be accurate 6 months or 19 years from now? And again, if you haven't shown that people beyond Kankakee care, why bother? The locals can consult the newspaper or the fliers that the groups post locally. The ultimate argument against including overly detailed information like we are discussing is this: What more useful information about Kankakee, Illinois would Bennie in Bhopal or Bill in Boise have by knowing the names of the four community theatre groups that existed on January 4, 2017, as opposed to knowing that there were four community theatre groups (or for that matter, that there were community theatre groups)? The answer to that rhetorical question is none. No one is going to come to Kankakee because of the name of a particular entity. As I live in metro Boise, I can say with certainty there is no way I would ever need that info unless I had plans to come to Kankakee. If I did, I wouldn't be looking to Wikipedia to provide it. I know it is beyond their scope. And I guess I did make an argument after all. John from Idegon (talk) 19:07, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks John. This is very helpful for me. I appreciate you taking the time to write this up, especially given your expressed frustration with the subject. DonIago (talk) 20:43, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fully aware of what a SPA is. So why couldn't from the start say "Don't list the names of the organizations. Just list that there are 4 groups."? Instead you decided that you needed to be the only editor of the page and erase all info you deemed unimportant. And what was wrong with the info about the Symphony Orchestras...they've been around a very long time. or other art events that have been around? TylerMc86 (talk) 23:38, 5 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Removed Infobox

The infobox was all screwed up, with all the source code visible right on the page instead of the box. I tried to fix it but I have no idea what I'm doing, so I just removed it. Hopefully someone who knows what's wrong with it can put it back.