Talk:Kemah Bob

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BorgQueen (talk) 08:12, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the American comedian Kemah Bob maintains a drag king persona, Lil' Test Ease? Source: https://www.itv.com/watch/celebrity-karaoke-club/10a0492/10a0492a0016
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: QPQ forthcoming. Genuinely unsure who else deserves credit on this.

Moved to mainspace by Launchballer (talk). Self-nominated at 12:10, 7 March 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Kemah Bob; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (plagiarism free except of the quote of course! + the check just gives you how many the person did and not how they did vs. How many they nominated!) I enjoyed reading this article. Overall, Well sourced (did not verify all references but checked up to the hook) although an image for the persona would have added more perspective. Nevertheless, Good work! Let's brainstorm some hooks .. I will come back with some hook suggestions as the current one needs some work especially around the word “maintains” FuzzyMagma (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

@Launchballer: here some hooks ..

• ALT1: ... that Kemah Bob maintains a bipolar disorder and a drag king persona?
• ALT2: ... that the American comedian Kemah Bob performs a drag king persona, Lil' Test Ease?
• ALT3: ... that men's rights activist Lil' Test Ease is actually a woman? FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

• @Launchballer:, you are actively editing but have not responded to the comments on this DYK. Can you please do so, or withdraw if you no longer wish to bring the article to DYK? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:43, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
  • • To be honest, I saw this, wrote a QPQ for it, and then forgot to actually comment here. I'm not quite sure what the problem with the word 'maintains' is; I do know that none of the hooks proposed make grammatical sense. I propose the following:
    • ALT4: ... that the American comedian Kemah Bob performs a drag king act, Lil' Test Ease?--Launchballer 21:25, 2 April 2023 (UTC)
      • To be honest I'm not sure either. Speaking as a drive-by commentator, I think the original hook is fine as-is. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Ok let's go by the original hookFuzzyMagma (talk) 22:41, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Pronounce and Gender

I added the gender as sexuality can be confused with gender especially after the word “identify” used twice to describe two different aspects. As for the reference for the pronouns because it is can be disputed as per MOS:CITELEAD .. FuzzyMagma (talk) 16:15, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

It links to the pansexual article, so where would the confusion be? The sentence before directly deals with her identifying as a woman, so there's no need to repeat it.

Her pronouns are not challengeable information. Other articles with a similar note in the lead don't cite there, such as the article for Jack Monroe. 84.92.90.18 (talk) 16:25, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I am on the side of offering clarification is if it’s not needed (although in this case it’s needed) and I don’t think it deducts anything from the article to be extra clear. I have added the “a” as requested.

As for referencing the ledes it’s done as per the policy I have referenced above. I it was a point that I initially disputed as it’s for us to chose the pronounce if some is using She/They. You need early on to tell the reader why did you select one and not the other

if you think we need a third opinion or you are not convinced please let me know so we can consult Wikipedia:Dispute resolution FuzzyMagma (talk) 16:57, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I absolutely do think a third opinion is required. 84.92.90.18 (talk) 17:31, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt I wonder if you can weigh in. The disagreement is about adding a reference to the note in the lede about the use of She instead of they as a pronoun

2nd dispute is about including the gender after the sexual identity both of our arguments are outlined above FuzzyMagma (talk) 17:41, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

@TompaDompa I wonder if you can weigh in. The disagreement is about adding a reference to the note in the lede about the use of She instead of they as a pronoun

2nd dispute is about including the gender after the sexual identity both of our arguments are outlined above FuzzyMagma (talk) 19:40, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Edits concerning pronouns and identity

@FuzzyMagma has made edits that mention "woman" after pansexual, despite the previous sentences mentioning that she identifies as a woman. It is not usual in articles to do this, and it is entirely usual to have a statement of sexuality that is separate from a statement of gender identity.

In addition, there is a source in place for her preferred pronouns in the article. There is no need to source this again (with a different source, for some reason) in the lead. It is entirely usual, as indicated in the Manual of Style, to have sources within the article and not in the lead. This is the case in other similar comedian articles, such as for Bob Mortimer. At the very least, there is no need to duplicate these references, and the place where this is most relevant is in the article itself, and not in the notes section.

On an unrelated note, I see that in previous edits, references to her being queer have been removed, as it is from a social media source. However, I believe it is entirely usual to use primary sources in this case, as is the case in the article for David Morgan. One can identify as both pansexual and queer, so it may well be worth including both (with the relevant sources) in the article. 84.92.90.18 (talk) 16:19, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

For the last part, tag/ping who removed it FuzzyMagma (talk) 17:43, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request:

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on Kemah Bob and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

I'm responding here but I did also read the discussion in the section above. My preference would be to have the citation in the pronoun footnote; more citations are very rarely a bad thing, and this is not strictly in the lead, so WP:LEADCITE doesn't apply. It doesn't matter to me which of the two sources we cite, as both are fine for this. I don't think it's helpful to restate "woman". To address the issue of repeating "identifies", we could just say "Bob is pansexual". Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 17:40, 15 March 2023 (UTC)