Talk:King Charles

This page was nominated at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion on 8 September 2022. The result of the discussion was Procedural Keep.

On 8 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to King Charles (disambiguation). The result of the discussion was not moved.

Requested move 8 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 16:03, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

King Charles → King Charles (disambiguation) – And redirect King Charles to Charles III. The primary topic for King Charles in our day and age is the King of the United Kingdom, especially in the English-speaking world. A Spanish king from 500 years back can not change that. Kebabpizza (talk) 19:49, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose going off of precedent, Queen Elizabeth targets a disambiguation page despite Queen Elizabeth II being who most people would refer to when saying Queen Elizabeth. It also does seem like some of the other King Charleses of past especially King Charles I were themselves pretty notable and while Charles III is the current king, he's not necessarily the most notable King Charles. TartarTorte 20:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - There have been many kings called Charles, in many realms, and I don't think it's sensible to send everyone to Charles III's page just because he's the UK's current monarch. And the propose change would unnecessarily complicate the hatnote on Charles III's article, too. GenevieveDEon (talk) 20:21, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There are many, many kings named Charles, and the one who was named monarch of the U.K. less than a day ago is in no way the WP:PTOPIC when compared to all of the rest of them. Especially when compared to Charles I of Spain, Charles III of Spain, and Charles I of Austria, there is no primary topic here. As such, a dab page is most appropriate. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 20:33, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Soft oppose. Queen Elizabeth seems to set a reasonable precedent. However, the page certainly mustn’t stay as is, with those looking for the current UK monarch having to follow another redirect. So Charles III (leading to the UK monarch) certainly needs to be on its own, probably on top, perhaps separated from former Kings Charles using heading such as Reigning/Former. —ThorstenNY (talk) 20:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Even treating the current UK king as the primary meaning of Charles III, although it was ultimately upheld, proved controversial. Treating him as the primary meaning of King Charles, when there are a pile of other monarchs of this name, including two well-known previous British monarchs, is surely going too far. PatGallacher (talk) 01:18, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Too many important Kings Charles exist to pick one, even the most current Anglosphere one, as the default. Bayonet-lightbulb (talk) 06:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as there are many monarchs known as King Charles. cookie monster 755 03:31, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose if there is a primary topic, it would be Charlemagne (Charles the Great); and amongst sovereigns from Great Britain, Charles I of England (the executed king) and Charles II of England (the restored monarchy) are both more prominent than Charles III of Great Britain. Let us not forget Charles VII of France, for whom Joan of Arc died for, another very famous Charles -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 04:55, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

followup to move discussion

I wanted to check some navigation changes discussed with @Neveselbert in the latter half of February, as we have a full month of stats since, but I also realized the top section was also changed since, in the first half of March. So the picture isn't necessarily clear, but whatever:

https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=King_Charles

13739 total incoming views

clickstream-enwiki-2024-03.tsv:

10044 total identified outgoing clickstreams

King_Charles Charles_III link 8299 (~60% / ~82.6%)
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) link 460 (~3.3% / ~4.5%)
King_Charles Charles_I link 342 (~2.5% / ~3.4%)
King_Charles Charles_II link 196
King_Charles Charles_X link 96
King_Charles Charles_I_of_England other 61
King_Charles King_Charles_(news_program) link 60
King_Charles Carl_XVI_Gustaf link 59
King_Charles Charles_II_of_England other 55
King_Charles Charles_VIII link 47
King_Charles Charles_IV link 44
King_Charles Main_Page other 37
King_Charles Charles_V link 37
King_Charles Charles_VI link 34
King_Charles Charles_IX link 29
King_Charles King_Charles_Spaniel link 28
King_Charles Charles_VII link 27
King_Charles Prince_Charles_(disambiguation) link 24
King_Charles King_Charles_(musician) link 19
King_Charles Diana,_Princess_of_Wales other 17
King_Charles Monarchy_of_the_United_Kingdom other 16
King_Charles Charles_XI_of_Sweden link 16
King_Charles Queen_Elizabeth_The_Queen_Mother other 14
King_Charles Charles_XV link 14
King_Charles Charles_XII_of_Sweden link 13

That's 25 identified destinations, and it's clear that we come down to the anonymization threshold of 10 there. At WT:D I have a thread where I collated some other cases where the top link gets ~60% incoming, overall it seems fine as is. --Joy (talk) 19:04, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In all-time monthly page views for King Charles we can see the recent spikes. In the last couple of months, the top items are:

April 8863 incoming views, and clickstream-enwiki-2024-04.tsv shows:

King_Charles Charles_III other 4952 (~55.9% / ~79.9%)
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) other 325 (~3.7% / ~5.2%)
King_Charles Charles_I other 235
King_Charles Charles_II other 174
King_Charles King_Charles_(news_program) other 148
...
total: 6197 to 19 identified destinations

May 6978 incoming views, and clickstream-enwiki-2024-05.tsv shows:

King_Charles Charles_III link 4073 (~58.4% / ~77.2%)
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) link 320 (~4.6% / ~6.1%)
King_Charles Charles_I link 254
King_Charles Charles_II link 162
King_Charles Charles_X link 59
...
total: 5276 to 22 identified destinations

--Joy (talk) 09:30, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, this amount of clicks on Charles III (dis) may indicate that the Kings section heading causes blindness to the common section on top, the one that has no heading. This might be driving the clicks towards the current king at https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Charles_III_%28disambiguation%29 IOW that small contingent of readers was sent on a bit of a ride instead of getting navigated efficiently. It's also possible that some of them drop off along the way. --Joy (talk) 20:22, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

June 9584 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-06.tsv:

King_Charles Charles_III link 5918 (~61.7% / ~85.3%)
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) link 353 (~3.7%)
King_Charles Charles_I link 196
King_Charles Charles_II link 166
King_Charles Charles_X link 59
...
total: 6938 to 18 identified destinations

July 5319 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-07.tsv:

King_Charles Charles_III link 3288 (~61.8% / ~83.1%)
King_Charles Charles_I link 194
King_Charles Charles_II link 169
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) link 139 (~2.6%)
King_Charles Charles_IV link 34
...
total: 3955 to 14 identified destinations

August 4526 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-08.tsv:

King_Charles Charles_III link 2675 (~59.1% / ~81.1%)
King_Charles Charles_I link 199
King_Charles Charles_II link 167
King_Charles Charles_III_(disambiguation) link 113 (~2.5%)
King_Charles Charles_IV link 32
...
total: 3296 to 13 identified destinations

Looks like a little bit of repetition may have helped about half of those readers who missed the top part, about two hundred a month.

Note that the above numbers did not include filtered clickstreams, and WikiNav for August shows 1023 or ~20%.--Joy (talk) 09:07, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]