Talk:Koah-pau

Stop reverting the article

Please stop editing the article without discussing it with the other editors first. The dish in Fujian itself is not the "he ye bao". That is a class of dishes, not just one type. Treating "gua bao" as a Taiwanese exclusive name or something that originated in Taiwan is also factually incorrect when we have sources dating back to the 1980s that it was known as that in the Philippines. Areas with high levels of Fujianese immigration, such as Malaysia, also have the same type of dish. Ephemform (talk) 04:22, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

he ye bao is simply only meat and lotus leaf bread. If Gua Bao can’t be called Taiwan dish then Japan Ramen should be Chinese dish. 1980s is pretty late. Many Taiwanese business have interactions with Philippines too. The combinations ingredients in the page shows it’s Taiwanese Gua Bao. YesOnO (talk) 04:58, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

“Business man” lost one word YesOnO (talk) 04:59, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Though they are published in the 1980s, they mention their existence around even earlier than that and the sources do not describe the dish as one introduced from Taiwan but as a "traditional Hokkien dish" of the Philippines. It also doesn't account for parallel traditional dishes in Southeast Asia, unless you want to provide evidence that ALL of them were somehow introduced by Taiwanese businessmen. Another point of contention is that you believe the "he ye bao" is a specific dish rather than a class of dishes. It is a term used to describe he ye bing that have fillings in them, not even specifically meat filled ones. Ephemform (talk) 05:10, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

No I definitely think he ye bao is a classic dish. But Gua Bao is a variant dish just like ramen. Ramen use Chinese way of making noodles with many Japanese ingredients and soup bacome Japan dish. Gua Bao has a Taiwan name (recorded in the book) and has Taiwan ingredients. YesOnO (talk) 05:42, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• "He ye bao" is not a singular dish itself. It's simply a sandwich that utilises the he ye bing. It's like how dumplings are a broad food group, and not a specific dish. You could perhaps argue that "gua bao" is a Taiwanese name for a Fujianese dish but then that argument does not hold up against the fact that people in the Philippines call it the same thing. Ephemform (talk) 05:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Gua Bao were popular in Taiwan in the 1970s(according to Taiwan news paper content at that time), earlier than you said in the 1980s in Southeast Asia. YesOnO (talk) 06:08, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• The dishes mentioned in Southeast Asian sources clearly refer to the dish as a traditional one. None of them make any mention of Taiwanese influence and cite Fujianese influence instead. I do not buy the idea that all of these Southeast Asian countries with heavy Fujianese influence spontaneously adopted it from Taiwan within just a a few years after it became mainstream in Taiwan. The more simple explanation is that they were all influenced by a common dish from Fujian, including Taiwan. Ephemform (talk) 06:17, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I do not deny that the lotus leaf bag was completely influenced by Fujian. But the name Gua Bao the records of Taiwan are earlier than all other places, whether it was during the Japanese colonial period in Taiwan or in the 1970s. What's more, in the Philippines, Gua Bao is not a mainstream street food. YesOnO (talk) 08:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

According to Taiwanese people going to Fujian to meet people there. They call lotus leaf bun tiger bite buns. Gua Bao is the name called by Taiwan first and it’s a popular in Taiwan with Taiwanese ingredients. YesOnO (talk) 08:05, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

In the information inside, it is written in that Fuzhou bao was used pig tongue. If there is any dispute, it should be deleted together with the original part. I just added the content translation and added the text about pig tongue.( this part I can write in right?) YesOnO (talk) 08:10, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Some linked pages about Jinjiang part have disappeared, so they should not be used as a source of information. (Can't understand why you insist on keeping the part where the information disappeared）Hope you fix these part YesOnO (talk) 08:11, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• The Jinjiang parts haven't disappeared. Even if the Fuzhounese version is made with pig tongue, it says that parts of Taiwan also serve it with pig tongue. You haven't accounted for the Quanzhou version of the dish at all. It also doesn't matter if the Filipino food is not mainstream, you haven't provided any evidence that it was introduced to the Philippines from Taiwan. You shouldn't make any edits until you learn how to format your posts properly first. You haven't even been able to demonstrate you can do that on this Talk page. Ephemform (talk) 09:46, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I saw in few days ago it was page fault, I've seen it, it’s without problems can keep it. The informations of Philippine don’t show it really come from. People should give Fujian’s information before 1970s or 1940s to prove there were Gua Bao in Fijian. YesOnO (talk) 09:56, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

The page does not say that the gua bao is from Philippine, so there is no need to prove where the Philippine kwabao comes from. Gua bao is recorded in Taiwan documents and news papers. I may be a wiki novice, but I have good logic and seek truth from facts. Meat lotus leaf bun and Gua Bao same same but different. There should be no lack of evidence in the source to define origin YesOnO (talk) 10:24, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusing reason of why I reverted the user above. This edit was written so poorly, I thought it was nonsense. Though I realized after that the content this user put in was not intended as vandalism, but other disruption. Tropicalkitty (talk) 11:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the revert. The user has been a disruptive editor engaged in edit wars and making very low quality changes to the article. Ephemform (talk) 11:24, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

If you want to say that the information is not acceptable, then you should clearly state which part of the reason for your revert otherwise it will be a empty reason. YesOnO (talk) 11:35, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I simply edit mine, 3RR-person drag me into this low quality edit wars. Maybe we should ask third opinion mediation. Not one or two people can decide whether the other can edit or not. Ephemform ,you have not provided information to prove. YesOnO (talk) 11:39, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

“nonsense” and “low quality” are kinda offensive language. Please be aware of internet etiquette. If editing just doesn't make sense, you and few people won't react so much, keep deleting. Because my editors subvert your perception, so it needs to be dealt with. YesOnO (talk) 03:07, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

I think there’s no rule says that one’s writing content doesn't suit your taste, you can revert it without proper and “equitable” reasons. YesOnO (talk) 03:07, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

The pig tongue was just written to briefly describe some difference. Since you think this is not enough, I add more contents in more detail for you to see. YesOnO (talk) 04:18, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Fuzhou bao (福州湯包）is wrapped with red vinasse meat and pig tongue. These two materials are boiled until soft and rotten. The meat filling is pink. Describing the original bun eating way, one vendor being interviewed saying that the bun and ingredients were “chopped and soaked with meat gravy to eat”. （more like Paomo) This soft squishy taste not liked by Taiwanese, so it evolved to sell in dry version. YesOnO (talk) 04:19, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Some Fuzhou immigrants came to Taiwan after World War II, so they may have been influenced by the previous people eating way but claiming to be theirs. YesOnO (talk) 04:19, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Roujiabao in Quanzhou, China is a banquet dish. They are placed into separate buns and pork in the plates eaten by diners themselves. YesOnO (talk) 04:21, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Conclusion: The easy-to-eat way was popularized in Taiwan in the 1970s. The Gua Bao is a Taiwan local name. The eating way and the ingredients are formed in Taiwan. If the article has been listed as roujiabao hue bao, there is no problem. However, it’s listed as Gua Bao , it could be arguable. YesOnO (talk) 04:23, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Siopao is listed as originating from the Philippines. As described in that article . “ It is the indigenized version of the Fujianese baozi, introduced to the Philippines by Hokkien immigrants during the Spanish colonial period. “ Kakuni is listed as originating from Japan.

If the origin of the Siopao and Kakuni is written in the place creating adaptations, the source of the Gua Bao should be written in the same as the place where it was derived. YesOnO (talk) 07:15, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ephemform: I think the ideal situation would to write the origin the same as Ramen and Siobao page accordingly. If you don't buy what the information on Gua Bao’s development process I have provided, then well I understand your standpoint. Keep the origin part tentatively as it has been. However, I think the article needs more resources proposing the Fujian written records before the 1970s to prove that the lotus leaf bun originally had these ingredients (peanut powder, pickled mustard greens, and coriander) or it is an indigenized Taiwan food already.

The origin how to list is a relatively big argument, and there are different opinions, so I hope to have more content after a few weeks of discussion. After a few weeks, if no one has provided the record data, please agree I or other editors who participated in this page to change the origin. YesOnO (talk) 09:56, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I will supplement this page with the information. Every edit I made was accompanied by Edit summaries. Pls don’t delete or revert other editors content indiscriminately. YesOnO (talk) 09:57, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

How the Gua Bao had been created and evolved in Taiwan

All I do is provide more “background information” on this food. If anyone If you have different opinions and different information, welcome to discuss with me！After discussion I would post my edits. YesOnO (talk) 04:47, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

First, the name Gua Bao is name by Taiwanese Second, pickled mustard which different to Cha tsai. It’s made by Hakka Taiwanese. Third, Taiwan style Braised pork favor spices is different to Dongpo pork’s spices. Fourth, Fuzhou bao is made of pig tongue. YesOnO (talk) 04:55, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Supplementary information Fifth : Gua Bao had been popular in Taiwan in the 1970s (according to Taiwan news paper content at that time that a university scholar search and found). Earlier than this name be known in 1980s in Southeast Asia.

Sixth : Gua Bao the term was recorded in Taiwanese-Japanese dictionary by Japanese scholars. YesOnO (talk) 08:07, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Gua - “ kuah ” in Taiwanese language means to cut by drawing the knife around. YesOnO (talk) 10:00, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Gua Bao is a Taiwanese adaptation of lotus leaf bun. It is a Taiwanese famous street snack food often offered with Sù-sîn-thng Four-Herbal Soup（四神湯） YesOnO (talk) 10:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Japan kakuni only contains Dongpo pork YesOnO (talk) 10:02, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

References

Wikipedia is an open platform

When Your edits are sourced. Someone can eliminate other people's new edits without reason? If someone don't want to listen to your discussion, is there any way to invite them to discuss before deleting other people's edits?

If you don’t agree some content talk and discuss with me, rather than deleting others edits. YesOnO (talk) 04:50, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• You were told by Dennis Dartman, JBW, and myself to discuss such major changes but you continuously reverted the article without talking and deleted other people's edits first. Your edits are not properly formatted and they are contradictory to the edits made by Mlgc1998. Ephemform (talk) 05:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Because I thought as long as it’s reliable sources the information all can be used and edited on Wikipedia. I'm sorry for my misunderstanding before for not knowing major changes need to talk here. However, most my informations are credible. I thought my normal editing was being blocked for no reason at all, so I edit again and again. Mr.K or Ms.K tell me to talk here so I understand. Dennis didn’t tell me these. YesOnO (talk) 05:12, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

So how long and to what extent can I exercise my editorial rights?( politely asking) YesOnO (talk) 05:16, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• As a new user, please learn how to properly format pages first. You should read through [1]. Wikipedia is free for anyone to edit but this does not mean it does not have any quality standards. Ephemform (talk) 05:21, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your reminder, I don't know much about the discussion Talk board, but I believe that the part I edit in the main page is maintained well quality standards (all have informations)

So for the content of the main page, what part do you think the information is unreasonable. If there are no other questions, after discussion with you and others in this board I will edit my part. YesOnO (talk) 05:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

• Please refrain from editing until you have reached general consensus with the other editors, found sources that are not contradictory to the others, and have learned how to follow the style guide. Ephemform (talk) 05:37, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

May I ask if there is a record of this name, and the ingredients are obviously from Taiwan. Where is the contradiction? If some research reports by documentary scholars cannot be used, then the news reports used on this page are not contradictory? YesOnO (talk) 05:46, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

Are there records of previous discussions available to see?

I would like to know what information was used to set the tone of the discussion at the beginning. Did they use third-party testimony instead of first-party objective information as the source of information? YesOnO (talk) 03:09, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Gua Bao is definitely a name from Taiwan and a variant Taiwan food. If the consensus is to emphasize the lotus leaf bun food extension, then It should use edit on he ye bao page to emphasize it. Or change name to He ye Bao and correct ingredients to the original kind. YesOnO (talk) 03:12, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

It's like Jay Chou's adaptation of classical music, but Jay Chou's song is said to be Chopin's song. YesOnO (talk) 03:12, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

It should be a revision of new information to improve the informations, not that the original discussion become a fossil cannot be revised. YesOnO (talk) 03:13, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Excluding the origin dispute, I should be able to exercise editing rights for the parts other than this part, right? For the Taiwan part, I should be able to add discussion, without editing the original part. YesOnO (talk) 03:14, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Why can other people explain the way of eating ,but I can't introduce what soup is often served with this food? Hope who delete these parts can answer me. YesOnO (talk) 03:16, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Disputed

I think it's better to create a Rou Jia Bao page, or complete the alternate names in sections if assuming that these are all relatives.

The scope of classification is a bit too large, and some should be written on the lotus leaf bread page instead. YesOnO (talk) 04:26, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

@YesOnO: First off, I'd like to apologize for not being very active on Wikipedia lately. I've been dealing with school and personal life, and I hope you'd understand.

Second of all, thank you for addressing your concerns here instead of on the main article page, and thank you for listening to the guidance of more experienced editors here. Now, Wikipedia has certain guidelines for grammar and formatting that all editors are expected to adhere to; these can be found at WP:MOS. In addition, a certain level of competence is required to edit on Wikipedia (WP:CIR), regardless of whether in the article or talk namespace. For instance, making eight posts in this discussion page without waiting for other users to respond (or getting them to respond using the ping template, etc.) is considered WP:Disruptive editing, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. If you fail to meet these requirements, you will no longer be permitted to edit Wikipedia (WP:BLOCK). I sincerely hope you can abide by these standards.

Now, I understand that you would like to include more detail about Gua Bao in this article: more subvarieties, more historical background, etc. However, if you wish to include these, again, you must make sure to adhere to the style guidelines. I apologize if I'm coming off as patronizing here, but honestly, the way you've been implementing these edits to the main article body has largely taken the form of disorganized, incoherent rambles. I'm going to tell you again that while your edits might be factually accurate, they're rather difficult to understand. And therefore, I strongly urge you to take a good hard look at the Manual of Style page, linked above, before making any edits. Dennis Dartman (talk) 21:06, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

The original article consisted of introductions and rambles. （Talk about what Bao is, then talk about the lotus leaf bun. Talk about the ingredients, and then say that many places have this food) Therefore, I add the explanation of the previous word “Gua” explanation like how it describes the word “Bao” . I thought that it would be enough to supplement my information according to the former way of writing the article.

Now I'm waiting for other users to respond. I have read the guidelines, so don't worry, I'll follow the rules. I have rearranged what I've written, and partially put them together. Also thank you for understanding that all I want is to add some additional materials.

In response to your advice, I have run through grammar checking. Make sure there is no problem with the grammar and formatting. Many thanks to the high attention and advice. YesOnO (talk) 05:27, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll add the alternate name Rou Jia Bao, kakuni cuabao. Add descriptions of different ways of eating in different locations and some dietary development background (Fuzhou, Taiwan and Japan Nagasaki part）

@Ephemform: I've asked twice that you please discuss this matter. I'm going to go ahead and make the change I've described above. If you revert without responding here, then I'm going to have to file a complaint against you at ANI for disruptive editing by reverting without discussing.— YesOnO (talk) 09:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC).