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Split proposal

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Page notice removed by JohnBlackburn. JTP (talk • contribs) 03:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The article is currently very long, long enough that it is exceeding one of the limits for templates, which is putting it in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. The cause is the various team bracket templates. It’s not that any of the templates are especially problematic, but each produces a lot of output the total of which is putting the page over the limit. The result is it stops processing before the end, and templates at the end of the article are not being expanded.

I suggest therefore splitting the article. This would fix the templates and make the article (or articles) more navigable. The obvious way is chronologically, by e.g. decade, resulting in four articles. Three or even two would fix the problem but would mean choosing more arbitrary cut-offs. Or perhaps there is some other criteria which could be used.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 13:07, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are all of these tournaments necessary? A lot of these articles already have dedicated articles for the tournament (For instance - The Cruiserweight Classic or WWF Brawl for All) Do we need to have this information duplicated like this? Could we not simply list it as a tournament, link to the article (As we do now), and write in prose about the tournament. Then, the list is merely for other tournaments that don't have a specific article, and would cut the size down significantly. And, above all, the article still lists all WWE Tournaments.
Incedently, should this not be List of WWE tournaments? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:17, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I was typing up a response but then noticed your comment can like you idea better. We could like to the tournament that lives elsewhere and in prose write who won. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 13:20, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lee Vilenski: I agree about List of, so I proposed moving them all below. Thanks! - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 13:14, 27 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We could split by decade, which would be the obvious choice as neutral, objective cutoff points. Or we could trim the article of non-notable one-offs. Do we really need to have a bracket for every four-man mini-tournament that was run over a couple of weeks of standard television episodes to set up a challenger for a title? It's something done so often as to be a routine way to fill TV time with no long-term impact and their inclusion is plainly bloating the page. This is a clear case where there's no reason to include everything that's ever happened on pro wrestling television. oknazevad (talk) 13:23, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm wondering if another page has the same tournament bracket (Cruiserweight Classic, WWE United Kingdom Championship Tournament, etc.), then we just put a header and a {{main}} to the host page, which will bring the included template number and overall page size down. JTP (talk • contribs) 19:08, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Could the templates themselves be the problem? WP:SIZERULE suggests to split when you exceed 50–60 Kb of readable prose, which isn't the case here. And besides, an article like Political positions of Hillary Clinton is the poster child for "very long". This isn't very long at all, unless we're taking the non-existent attention spans of millenials into consideration. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 22:30, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The templates are the problem, see WP:TLIMIT. JTP (talk • contribs) 00:00, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. If you look at the page source each of the team bracket templates is generating a lot of HTML. It’s easier to see, without overloading your browser, if you look at an article it’s transcluding the table from such as The Wrestling Classic. This is probably unavoidable to generate the table layout needed for them, or at least doing it another way such as generating images would be a massive overhaul and have its own issues. Absent that the only solution is to reduce the number of such templates in the article.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 01:01, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In response to this conversation I have worked up a draft of how to fix this page without splitting. Here is how the page looked a couple days ago, just prior to the conversation starting [1]. Here is my proposed new version [2]. There were a few tournaments that the bracket really belonged elsewhere, so I moved it and used the {{main}} template to link to it. I also used main for anywhere it lived elsewhere. I then made other random clean ups based on WP:EASTEREGG and removed a ton of random bolding. What are your thoughts? Feel free to make any other changes as well if you feel needed, and once we agree we can make it live. - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 12:48, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This looks much better. I support this version. JTP (talk • contribs) 22:06, 26 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. Completely pointless as above to duplicate tables simply to have them listed here. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:19, 27 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, much better. It does a far better job of attaching relatively insignificant setup tournaments used as almost routine storylines to the events that have actually independent notability. oknazevad (talk) 13:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How about the approach is modified, I have a couple of suggestions where we could do one or more of them to address the template issue and size ssue. 1) We could turn it into a table, that links to existing pages, instead of repeating it on this page. if the tournament doesn't exist it can always be listed below and we can do an internal line like so <nowiki>Tournament of Champions. That alone would bring the number of templates down. 2) It may also be worth considering moving any championship related tournament to the tournament article itself and link it - example CMLL World Heavyweight Championship#Tournaments - again bringing the number of templates on this page down. If people don't like that suggesting how about making sub pages for male singles, tag team and female tournaments? List of WWE tag team tournaments etc.?  MPJ-DK  10:17, 28 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 27 July 2018

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move the pages as requested, except that ECW tournaments is moved to List of Extreme Championship Wrestling tournaments, FMW tournaments is moved to List of Frontier Martial-Arts Wrestling tournaments, and WCW tournaments is moved to List of World Championship Wrestling tournaments per the discussion. Please revisit "WWE" and "WAR" as necessary. Dekimasuよ! 20:42, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

– These articles are all lists of tournaments. The logical naming convention would be to include "List of" in the title. As a side note we need consistency between them. Why is ROH, NJPW, OVW, etc. spelled out but WAR, FMW, ECW and WCW are not? Lets pick a consistent approach of abbreviating or not and applying it to tournament and PPV type pages. Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 13:13, 27 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support every move. I think it's a better title. However, I would ask... It is necessary a List of OVW tournaments? --HHH Pedrigree (talk) 13:16, 27 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is WWE an orphaned initialism? It seems that the WWE lead says that they just branded themselves as WWE not that "WWE" stopped meaning "World Wrestling Entertainment". This is reinforced by the fact that the lead says the company's legal name was not changed. --Gonnym (talk) 10:30, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Although its legal name is World Wrestling Entertainment, they officially do business solely as WWE - Galatz גאליץשיחה Talk 16:41, 29 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That still doesn't make it an orphaned initialism (at least per the article linked). --Gonnym (talk) 17:10, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's why I used the qualifier "in practice"; although the legal name hasn't changed, the dba name is the initials only. oknazevad (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

@Dekimasu: Any reason why the WAR article was left out? I can understand why the WWE was, but no one even mentioned WAR. --Gonnym (talk) 23:16, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The beginning of WAR (wrestling promotion) reads "Wrestle and Romance, and later Wrestle Association R...." Since I was unable to determine that there was a consensus for moving to one full title or the other, and since the article on the organization is itself at an acronym, I treated this one the same way as WWE. A new move request would be fine if needed, or if it's not controversial to use one or the other full title that's fine too. Dekimasuよ! 00:21, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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