Talk:List of masters of Trinity College, Cambridge

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 16 July 2024 (UTC) [1].

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List of masters of Trinity College, Cambridge

Nominator(s): IntGrah (talk) 06:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Nominating for featured list because...

• expanded the lead to describe the role
• described the Master's lodge building
• highlighted significant developments made by masters of the college
• summarised the notability of each entry on the list
• added related images with alt text

IntGrah (talk) 06:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Comments

• Might be worth mentioning at the start that Trinity is part of the University of Cambridge
• "In 1546, Trinity College was founded by Henry VIII, from merging the colleges of Michaelhouse and King's Hall" => "In 1546, Trinity College was founded by Henry VIII, merging the colleges of Michaelhouse and King's Hall"
• " then Warden of King's hall" - shouldn't hall have a capital H, like in the previous sentence?
• "The Façade of the building" - facade isn't a proper noun so it doesn't need a capital
• "Arthur Blomfield expanded the west wing of lodge" => "Arthur Blomfield expanded the west wing of the lodge"
• Great Court is linked twice in the lead
• (Aside) was the second master known informally as Bill Bill? ;-)
• "Vice-Chancellor (1548)" - probably worth making it explicit that he (and others who held this role) was VC of Cambridge, not of some other institution
• That's what I got. Great work! In fact it's inspired me to get out of my comfort zone of music and football and work on a similar article..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:38, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

  • Done (UoC)
  • Done (Merging the colleges)
  • Done (King's Hall)
  • Done (façade)
  • Done (the lodge)
  • Done (Great Court)
  • Not done (Bill Bill)—Very funny
  • Done (Vice-Chancellor) Wrote "Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge" for each entry. Also did the same for St John's College, Cambridge and Jesus College, Cambridge, which have Oxford colleges of the same name.

  IntGrah (talk) 20:14, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:44, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Drive-by comments

• John Redman, Robert Beaumont, and Thomas Comber are all disambiguation pages
• You are missing column and row scopes. See PresN's standard comment here for some advice
• A number of these names are unnecessarily preceded by a title, while others who do have titles that match what's included don't show them. Try to match the target page's name instead, minus disambiguators of course.

Hey man im josh (talk) 20:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Done Thanks for spotting; it was a mistake made when switching from Wikilinks to Sortname templates.

Done Row scopes are attached to the names

Done Names now match article titles.

IntGrah (talk) 20:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)

• Tables need captions, which allow screen reader software to jump straight to named tables without having to read out all of the text before it each time. Visual captions can be added by putting |+ caption_text as the first line of the table code; if that caption would duplicate a nearby section header, you can make it screen-reader-only by putting |+ {{sronly|caption_text}} instead.
• Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g. |{{Sortname|John|Redman|dab=Trinity College}} becomes !scope=row |{{Sortname|John|Redman|dab=Trinity College}}. If the cell spans multiple rows with a rowspan, then use !scope=rowgroup instead.
• Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. I don't return to these reviews until the nomination is ready to close, so ping me if you have any questions. --PresN 20:35, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

MPGuy2824

• "appointmented" to "appointed" OR rewrite the sentence to "The role is an official appointment by the monarch, at the recommendation of the college, ..."
• Some stats about the shortest and longest tenure would be nice in the lead.
• I'll reiterate PresN's point about having a primary cell for each row. I'd recommend the name cell.
• According to [2] William Bill stopped being master of St. John's in 1551, so you can remove the "?" after that year. In the same cell, remove the full stop at the end since this isn't a complete sentence.
• The empty ref column for the second William Bill stint looks odd. You can re-cite the earlier ref. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

• Done (appointed) I think the version "The role is an official appointment by the monarch..." doesn't allow for the fact that it is only ceremonial nowadays.
• Partially done I added a bit about Richard Bentley, since his long tenure is significant. (He was charged twice by the fellows, but held the role. The first sentencer died, and the second sentence was meant to be executed by the vice-master, whom he was a friend of.) I didn't think it was interesting enough to talk about the shortest term of office though.
• I already have | scope="row" |{{Sortname|First|Last}} on each table row, is that enough, or is there a another way to mark these as primary?
• Done (Bill Bill)
• Done (Empty ref)

IntGrah (talk) 00:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Instead of | scope="row" | it should be ! scope="row" | -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:56, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Are you sure? I didn't see this in other featured lists, and I think putting the picture first is better in this case. I made a test edit for now, but I am under the impression that | scope=... is sufficient for screenreader software. Please correct me if I'm wrong. IntGrah (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@PresN: Thoughts? -MPGuy2824 (talk) 13:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

It has to be a !. The reason is that, for wikicode, ! means a header cell, and | means a regular cell. Scope tags only work on header cells (since they're identifying the header cell for the row). Note, though, that the header cell, oddly, doesn't actually need to be the first cell in the row, so if you want the picture column to be the first one then that's fine. I personally don't like the look, but it's not invalid. --PresN 17:13, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the highlighted effect on the header cell looks weird when it is the second column. Is the current state fine then? (With the name as the header column) IntGrah (talk) 03:51, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Yup, I think it is fine now with the name as the first column (+ header). Support promotion. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 11:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

UC

My first time crossing the floor from FAC to FLC, so here goes:

• later becoming President of the Royal Society (1970–1975) (Hodgkin). Suggest cutting becoming; we don't have it or similar in any other context, and it could be used many times in this table.
• President of the Royal Society (1950–1955), president of the Royal Society of Medicine (Adrian): why the inconsistent caps?
• Suggest spelling out "Vice-Chancellor of Cambridge" as "Cambridge University" (or "of the University"): as written, it sounds like an appointment in city government.
• Physician (Haematologist) (Davies): decap haematologist as a job, not a title.
• Note 2: I don't see "fionaholland" (claimed author) mentioned on the page. Would advise not giving a username as an author anyway: is there anything linking it to someone presumably called Fiona Holland?
• Dashes in the "Furniture History" reference are massive: should be endashes per MOS:DASH.
• Stephen Brewer, Donald Olson (2006) (note 13): name order is at odds with other citations.
• Pace the Wikisource editors, looking at the source page, there is definitely a space in "Beaumont, Robert (d.1567)} after the d..
• Note 27 should be put into the same style as the other Wikisource links, and hyphen replaced with an endash.
• Note 36: endash needed.
• Note 43: endash needed.
• Advise linking Alan Hodgkin, Anthony Howard (NB target) and Andrew Huxley in references.
• Notes 54 and 55 need endashes where they have hyphens.
• Note 64 is shouting at me.
• Note 56 is a book, which we have generally given in title case, but the title is given in sentence case.
• Ditto 44, which also needs an endash.
• Some websites are cited inconsistently: compare notes 66 and 68, both to the Royal Society.
• Note 5 needs a correct publisher (which university press?), a volume and perhaps an edition number. Could also link to Chisholm.
• Does Beaumont have an article in the ODNB? If so, why cite the old DNB by preference?
• The office of the master could be held until the age of seventy, although this could be extended to seventy-five, by decree of the fellowship.: this is phrased in the past tense, but we never say that it has been repealed, or what the current rule is.
• The office of the master could be held until the age of seventy, although this could be extended to seventy-five, by decree of the fellowship. There have been 40 appointments to the position: MOS:NUM advises consistency on words versus figures here.
• the second sentence was refused to be carried out by the vice-master, Richard Walker, whom he was a friend of: this is pretty tough going in the passive voice: it would be clearer in the active, I think.
• the title is referred to as the master: it's the holder that is referred to as the master.
• Although sentenced twice, the first sentencer died before the process began: I'm not sure which process is meant here, or why this would allow him to get off the hook.

UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 21:20, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the review! I went through each of your points and didn't disagree with any of them:

• "fionaholland" appears in a <meta name="author" content="fionaholland"/> tag in the HTML. I think it's safe to say that Fiona Holland is the author, so I spelt out her name properly.
• Replaced DNB and ODNB web citations with with ODNB templates
• I summarised the Bentley feud by dropping the details of the trials – that can be read on the main article.

IntGrah (talk) 23:53, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Support: I've made a few fairly trivial edits with matters too minor to hold up the process. Nice work. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 15:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey man im josh

• Birth and death columns need column scopes
• All of the portraits need alt text added for accessibility
• There's a lot of opportunity for more wikilinks in the references you've used. Try to add more where possible, including converting websites listed as the publisher to the actual article that relates to that website.
• The page displays a script warning for issues related to {{cite encyclopedia}}, which means it's like an issue with a usage of {{Acad}}, as that's a wrapper template of the encyclopedia template. Please resolve the issue(s).

That's what I've got for now. Please ping me when these have been addressed. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:52, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Pinging nominator, @IntGrah. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey, thank you for the comments. I'm away for a few days but I will get round to it eventually. :) IntGrah (talk) 15:33, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh done … maybe. I am not sure how to fix the script warnings (I don't see any red text). Is it even there? But the other stuff: done! IntGrah (talk) 12:50, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

@IntGrah: These types of references aren't my forte, but I narrowed it down to the usage of {{acad}} and the |doi-broken-date parameter. I don't know the exact resolution, but I wanted to at least set you on the right path. Hey man im josh (talk) 16:13, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

@Hey man im josh Thanks for pointing me in the direction; I fixed some of the dois on {{Cite ODNB}} and removed the broken date warnings – hopefully nothing else is wrong. I checked the {{acad}} references and couldn't find any issues (there's only two params – what could possibly go wrong?) IntGrah (talk) 23:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Good news is there's no longer any citation errors. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Source review passed; promoted. --PresN 16:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.