Talk:May Calamawy

Nationality/Citizenship and lead paragraph.

@Zoolver: - You reverted my edit on 9 May 2022 claiming that she should be described as being "Egyptian-Palestianian" simply because she identifies herself as such.[1] And @CentreLeftRight: added a hidden comment to not remove that.[2] The sources provided have no consistency in how identifies as. Sometimes they'll describe her as being Egyptian-Palestinian while others describe her as being just Egyptian or just Palestinian. One interview provided describes her mother as being "Jordanian".

According to the Harper's Bazaar Arabia interview, she is described as only being "Egyptian".[3] Quote: "Our conversation with Egyptian actress May Calamawy was as diverse as the Arab stories she’s set on telling." Later on in the article, it mentions a picture of Calamawy in 8th grade. Quote: “On the back page is a smiling picture of an 8th-grade May, and underneath in impressively neat handwriting: ‘May Calamawy was born in 1986 in Bahrain. She is Egyptian. She went to four schools. When she grows up she would like to be an actress.’" The interview profile from Time Out Dubai simply describes as a "Palestinian actress".[4] Though in underneath, they also write "Egyptian/Palestinian.

Though the interview from Variety[5] and Glamour[6] do describe her as being "Egyptian-Palestinian". But all in all, there seems to be some inconsistancy in how sees herself as. Another Variety article describes her mother as being "Jordanian".[7]

But that's beyond the point. Wiki's guidelines like MOS:BIOLEAD states: "The first sentence should usually state [...] Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable". MOS:ETHNICITY states: "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident [...] Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability". None of the sources explicitly mention that she holds dual or triple citizenship. Though I know that recognition of Palestine is a very controversial topic, and it appears her mother is from Jordan and of Palestinian descent? Regardless, one could assume that she may at least have Egyptian nationality. Since Egyptian nationality law[8] appears to grant nationality to people born anywhere with at least one parent who is an Egyptian national. But that assumption would would probably fall under original research, especially since following that logic, many notable Americans should be dual or triple citizens as many countries may allow/recognize communities abroad as being nationals to their country. But we don't mention this unless reliable proof states so. Also, the wording of those nationalities may be open to interpretation. The hyphen may indicate ethnicity and not nationality, similar to hyphenated terms like "Irish-Canadian" or "British-American".

Per her own words in a Glamour magazine interview, she was born and raised mostly in Bahrain and spent 6 years of her life living in Qatar and the United States before she was 12 years old.[9] Quote: "I was born and mostly raised in Bahrain (besides the six years I spent between Doha, Qatar, and Houston before I turned 12)." It doesn't look like she spent a significant part of her life in either Egypt or Palestine; her education was completed in Bahrain[10] and the United States. And the U.S. is where she is active/most notable as an actress.

Following MOS:ETHNICITY and MOS:BIOLEAD, my now reverted edit described her as an "[...] is an actress. Of Egyptian and Palestinian descent, she has been based in the United States since 2015". Due to her exact nationality/citizenship situation being unclear at the moment and her birth, upbringing and where she is active as an actress are not in Egypt or Palestine. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 00:13, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

"Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable"

"Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability"

She's literally known as "Egyptian/Palestinian" since 2011[11] before she even had a Wikipedia page. It takes a few minutes on Google to see how many times she's referred to as such. All the major media outlets describe her as "Egyptian-Palestinian", she never corrected people who referred to her as "Egyptian-Palestinian" in interviews. We can't ignore it just because we haven't seen her passport. She's not Bahraini according to the law, and there's no source if she ever applied for a US citizenship, so we can't call her "an American actress" either just because she's living in the US and became notable there. The only main source who calls her mother only "Jordanian" is the Variety one from 2014. It looks like her mother's family lives in Jordan, but is not clear where her mother was born. But she has never referred to herself as "Jordanian" or "half-Jordanian" like she says about being Egyptian-Palestinian.

"I'm half-Palestinian, but my mom's family are all in Jordan, so I grew up going to the Dead Sea and going to Jordan. There was a sense of pride, like, "I can't believe I'm filming this huge production here." The desert doesn't get old, but it was a familiar space."[12]

"I'm Palestinian, so standing up for Palestine is another important thing. I find that when people who are not Palestinian advocate for it, they get in trouble. So I'm like, "Okay, cool." So then as an Arab, I should have every freedom and right to stand up for it. And it's not about like standing up for one group against another, it's just let people live where they've been living. People who don't even have a lot of money to begin with. So Palestine is something thing that will always be dear to me."[13]

Even The Jordan Times calls her "Egyptian-Palestinian".[14]

So do we follow the sources available so far or just pretend that she's not Egyptian-Palestinian? Zoolver (talk) 01:59, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Check the revision history again. The hidden comment was there before my edits. I just do MOS cleanup for these type of articles (celebrity bios). All the best, CentreLeftRight ✉ 02:01, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Capitalised "El "

@Zoolver Not going to start an edit war about why I think DMG transcription is needed here but the problem with the current transliteration no matter how its cited is that a capitalised "El" followed by a blank space according to most conventions transliterates not a definitive article but "آل" a dynastic title. See Arabic name#Dynastic or family name Bari' bin Farangi (talk) 13:34, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with the intro, I don't know what's the tagged article has anything to do with May, her father is Egyptian and that's how Egyptian names are written. I.e. Amr El Solia, and articles write her full name that way. Fragrant Peony (talk) 16:14, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

English language journalists often struggle with the capitalisation of transliterated (Egyptian) Arabic names because Western naming conventions expect a family name to begin capitalised while most Romanisation schemes (outside of Franco) use the absence of capitalisation to differentiate the definite article and "آل", a good example of a wiki article which incorporates this basic principle of Arabic transliteration but represents the vowel qualities of the Egyptian dialect is Abdel Fattah el-Sisi Bari' bin Farangi (talk) 18:39, 1 January 2024 (UTC)