Talk:Mokhratagh

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Artsakh

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Villages (defunct)

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Requested move 14 March 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Kiçik Qarabəy be renamed and moved to Mokhratagh.

result:
No consensus. See below reason to make this a "tough call", so for now the status quo will remain in place. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their arguments and try again in a few months to garner consensus for this name change. Kudos to all editors for your input, and Happy, Healthy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 03:46, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Kiçik Qarabəy → Mokhratagh – This is a difficult move to argue for or against due to the lack of significance for the settlment and a lack of sources discussing this vilage at all. However, my main argument for making this move is that Mokhratagh is the name used by the actual residents of the village, both historically and currently. Furthermore, I can't find any referenece to this village being called "Kiçik Qarabəy" by the de-jure Azerbaijani authorities, whereas Mokhratagh is the name used by the de-facto Artsakh authorities. Finally, the change would reflect the need for using anglicized names. Achemish (talk) 19:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. It was renamed Kiçik Qarabəy on 29 December 1992 (Official decree). — CuriousGolden (T·C) 19:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. In addition to Kiçik Qarabəy being the official name of the village starting in 1992, it is called Kiçik Qarabəy in all the sources published before the 1930s. Even after the 1930s, in the Soviet era, according to Mkrtchyan, this name remained in parallel and unofficial use. Parishan (talk) 21:12, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Parishan. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 21:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support move to "Mokhratagh" per WP:COMMONNAME. Google: "Mokhratagh" "Karabakh": 1,540, "Kichik Garabey" "Karabakh": 4, "Kiçik Qarabəy" "Karabakh": 470, Google Scholar: "Mokhratagh" "Karabakh": 1, "Kichik Garabey" "Karabakh": 0, "Kiçik Qarabəy" "Karabakh": 0.

Mokhratagh is also the name utilized by the current inhabitants of the village (which also had an Armenian majority before the First Nagorno-Karabakh War [1]) and the current de facto administration of the village. Mokhratagh was also the name utilized for the village during the Soviet period [2] and is a historical Armenian name for the village according to Arsène Saparov's study of place names in Karabakh: [3]. AntonSamuel (talk) 12:19, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Parishan Carthago814(talk) 15:55, 29 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 2 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- Aervanath (talk) 15:37, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kichik Garabey → Mokhratagh, Nagorno-Karabakh – The uncertainty of the 2020 war has now settled down. The village is definitely in the rump state of the Republic of Artsakh. All the inhabitants are ethnic Armenians. They do not not speak Azerbaijani, despite what the President of Azerbaijan might wish. The contributors to the last debate were mainly Azeri / turkic and so were probably pursuing a pan-turkic agenda. One of those editors has since been banned. I am Irish and have no particular axe to grind on places in that part of the world although I have done a lot of editing in the last year on Artsakh-related topics. Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:51, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The so called "Republic of Artsakh" is still unrecognised state. The village is located at the internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan Republic, where it is officially called Kichik Garabey. --Interfase (talk) 12:46, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support for all villages under Artsakhi control : an official name is meaningless if nobody uses it, and the Armenian names are also official by the local government. Recognision also doesn't affect naming, e.g. Taiwan isn't recognised by the UN, that doesn't affect the WP:COMMONNAME policy, we didn't delete all Taiwani settlement articles for that. It is pretty stupid -encyclopedically- to have a settlement name that nobody uses. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 17:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support for this and all other villages and cities under Artsakhi control . De-facto name used in real life and not on paper, by people who live there in real life and not in Azerbaijani president Aliyev’s dreams, can and should take a priority. Take the example of Stepanakert, it’s the article’s main name, although Azerbaijan calles it Khankendi. --Armatura (talk) 18:06, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support to "Mokhratagh". No English-language Google News results for "Kichik Garabey", while there are two such results for "Mokhratagh". Disambiguation is not required, the proposed title is primary and currently redirects here. BilledMammal (talk) 09:20, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support for all villages under Artsakh control per WP:COMMONNAME, these are the names used by local population. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 11:37, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Republic of Artsakh does not exist neither de-jure, and not even de-facto. Whatever remains of former NKAO is under the Russian control now. The only official names in the territory of Azerbaijan are those in the official language of the country. Also, the nomination itself is not worded correctly. Accusing other editors of "pursuing a pan-turkic agenda" is not in line with WP:AGF. Grandmaster 13:34, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The only other person who believes “Republic of Artsakh doesn’t exist” is Azerbaijani president Aliyev… if you read news other than from Azeri outlets you’ll know why that statement is ridiculous. --Armatura (talk) 14:38, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Mokhratagh is the clear common name for the village [4][5], the contemporary name used by the local population and administration, the village's name during the Soviet period [6], and is a historical name for the village [7]. AntonSamuel (talk) 14:10, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support but only because there seems not to be a clear common name. The number of results in Google and Google Scholar for both names are very similar (although Mokhratagh is way more common in Google Books). Since the land is currently not under Azerbaijani control and most inhabitants are ethnic Armenians, I believe it makes more sense to use the name Mokhratagh for now. Oppose using Armenian names for all localities under Artsakh without further inspection, we should treat all cases individually. For example, Khojaly is far more common than Ivanyan, and thus shouldn't be moved. Super Ψ Dro 16:42, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus: Are you using the non-anglicized version of the Azerbaijani name (Kiçik Qarabəy) without a complementary English-language word such as "Karabakh" in your search engine tests? If you search for "Kiçik Qarabəy" with no other word included, many of the results aren't going to be English-language results. When including "Karabakh", Mokhratagh gets a clear majority of the results: [8] [9] [10] AntonSamuel (talk) 17:05, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I had actually used Kichik Garabey, not the Azerbaijani Kiçik Qarabəy (I didn't even think about it for some reason), but from what I see, Mokhratagh is indeed more common in English, so full support to the proposal. Thanks for the notice. Super Ψ Dro 17:09, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.