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Charlie Russell Downs?

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Another contributor added to the lead that the horse racing track at Montana ExpoPark is also known as "Charlie Russell Downs." A cite was provided. But if you look at the web site that is referenced, it references a "Charlie R. Downs" as owner of a business. That's not the same as the name of the race track. Even if it were, that web site seems unreliable. A quick search under the name "Charlie Russell Downs" on Google revealed about 80 hits on the name, but none of them linked to reliable sources. Just one news story (an Associated Press story from 2001) used the name. A search of the Montana ExpoPark Web site revealed no use of the name. (The park uses the term "Grandstand".) However, roughly 80 local news and television reports in the past 10 years on Google News revealed that these outlets refered to the site as "horse racing at Montana ExpoPark", and did not use the term "Charlie Russell Downs" once. (Nor did Salon.com, a nationally known and reliable source.) It's not plausible to say that the track is known as "Charlie Russell Downs", not with this evidence. - Tim1965 (talk) 16:42, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the guilty party, though not sure I was the one who added that particular reference -- and I'll admit that I was surprised to find so few sources on this. It's complete OR to say "I KNOW they once used this name in news stories and promotional efforts," but it is true that I didn't just make this up. (Unless I'm now in an alternate reality or something, which IS possible). Given the state of horseracing in Montana, which even in a good year is a fragile proposition, I kind of wonder if the moniker was only used by one sponsoring group for several years and then they dropped it. Must be what happened. The other scary part is that those "few years" were probably the 1990s, and I actually think of that as just yesterday! (Of course, now that "new" bands like The Cure are officially eligible for nomination to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I'm feeling even older!) YIKES! Montanabw(talk) 17:55, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I lived there for 18 years, and never heard it called "Charlie Russell Downs." My friend Tim (his brother now teaches at GFHS) has been playing the horses since his dad started taking him when he was 12, and I'd never heard him use that term, either. Now, it's been 20 years since I lived there, so maybe they changed things... Lord knows 10th Avenue South looks like downtown Bangkok, with all the casino signs and neon junk littering the drag. And I couldn't find my way around Holiday Village Mall when I went shopping there with my nephew. (I can't believe Scheel's is making money in that cavernous store.) So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is what people call it, even if it's not official? Was it maybe used while that subcontractor ran the fairgrounds? (The Cars reunited, but only after Benjy Orr died, so I'm feeling as old and frustrated as you... What's next? A Split Enz reunion?) - Tim1965 (talk) 22:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That or Culture Club! =:-O I'm betting that it was the late 90s-early 00's and it was a subcontractor's moniker. That makes sense. I remember that it really caught my ear, though I admit I cannot I recall the term from earlier times, so it must have been a transitory but catchy name. And yeah, between the road construction on 10th and the flashing signs, even I got lost trying to find the entrance door to the new Scheel's (I get to GF maybe 2-3 times a year for various reasons; Herberger's figuring prominently...). But I suppose they feel that big Cabela's store in Billings breathing down their neck, so maybe they got support from the city to expand, I know a hardware store in another town did that got handout from the city to finance expansionsion when they realized they were about to be sandwiched between a Home Depot and a Lowe's, and they are still in business! Also, if it is any consolation, there are still "mermaids" on the weekends at the Sip & Dip! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 18:43, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now an article about the Sip 'n' Dip is one that should be added to Wikipedia! It's world famous. (I miss that stupid old A-frame swimming pool next to that long-gone motel near Benefis on 10th... Can't remember it's name, but it's now a parking lot next to the Hi-Ho. Me and some friends once took over that motel on a New Year's Eve because it was a) cheap, b) had a pool, and c) didn't care if we made lots of drunken noise.) Anyway, "Charlie Russell Downs" is probably out of this article. However, I did find some more info for this article on the ExpoPark on the Great Falls/Cascade County Historic Preservation Advisory Commission Web site, so I'm going to add that shortly. - Tim1965 (talk) 20:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We were there one afternoon prior to the arrival of the mermaids, just to see if there really was still the time warp! Being boring people, we just were amused by some kids playing in the pool who were looking through the window at the people in the bar -- sort of a reverse situation! We left when the very large bouncer showed up to start collecting the cover charge. Now I didn't live in GF in my foolish years, so I can't say I have a memory of the A-frame -- my strongest memories are of the duck pond at Gibson Park and such... but more on the Fairgrounds is great -- we were just there during the fair, where I got the shot of the new federal courthouse nearby (not great, but not bad for shooting from a moving car) that I stuck into the list of federal courthouses in MT. On a tangentially related topic, you might find this immensely amusing: http://wcc.dli.mt.gov/m/Mortensen_GA_Decision.htm (the workers comp judge clearly had WAY too much fun writing this decision!) Montanabw(talk) 05:01, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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