Talk:Monte Cristo, Washington

Untitled

Oct. 29, 2008 I have been adding new information about Monte Cristo, as I grew up in Everett, WA and have been in the area many times. I hope what I have done is helpful. --markhab (talk) 18:56, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Frederick Trump

Frederick Trump's business did not offer customers prostitutes it provided miners and female visitors a place to stay.RichardBond (talk) 10:55, 26 October 2017 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 10:55, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Evidence? The source clearly supports the original assertion. Reverting until there is some evidence otherwise. Nothingofwater (talk) 16:41, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

The crosscut.com ref cites the blog of the author as a reference for its assertion. Per WP guidelines, blogs are OR and not reliable sources. Also - reasoning for changes to the page should be posted here on the talk page, not on my page, where no one but me will read it. I have reverted the changes to the article pending reliable refutation of the Times reference. Nothingofwater (talk) 15:57, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

As salacious as the thought might be that his grandfather ran a brothel in the town of Montecristo the claim is ahistoric as there is no record or proof of his offering the sexual service of women rather than being non selective regarding to whom he rented rooms. It is incumbent on you to provide such proof before merely alledging that he did. Under the circumstances adding alleged rather than remoiving brothel is mild.RichardBond (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2017 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

I have reverted the change you made, as there is no sourced evidence that meets WP guidelines to contradict the current ref. Also - reasoning regarding changes should be posted to the talk page for the article changed. It preserves the context of changes with the article, and allows everyone to participate in the conversation. Thanks! Nothingofwater (talk) 16:00, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

RichardBond (talk) 21:33, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

The person who is clearly lacking evidence is not Rob Ketcherside it is Gwenda Blair. The news article you are trying to use as proof also refers to the Seattle Dairy Bar. Blair bases her argument that the Trump establishment was shady on the name Poodle Dog used by the previous owner. The Poodle Dog in San Francisco was a totally different establishment with a different floor plan. Blair then extrapolates from the mere name the PREVIOUS owner used to make accusations against Trump. If as is the case there is no proof of a statement the statement is ALLEGED. The reason I posted on your page is that hopefully a Wikipedia editor would recognize the difference between a theory like Blair's and a proven fact and recognize that Blair's theory merely makes an allegation.RichardBond (talk) 22:15, 27 October 2017 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 22:15, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

However since you insist on acceptance by a newspaper this article from the Seattle Post Intelligencer acknowledges the evidence provided by local historian Rob Ketcherside. The evidence makes it unlikely that Gwenda Blair who is not from the area or a specialist in its history is correct. www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Trump-family-local-legacy-Not-as-seedy-as-once-11518056.php However if you are insisting on making allegations based on flimsy evidence it will be necessary to post the disagreement on a bulletin board.RichardBond (talk) 08:47, 28 October 2017 (UTC) RichardBond (talk) 08:47, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Contrary to your above statement, I have made NO allegations. I am not the author of the original assertion, nor have I commented on the 'salaciousness' of it. There was an original assertion that was sourced, and then a later removal based on what looked like anecdotal evidence. The 'insistence' you cite on my part (twice) is simply doing my best to follow WP guidelines. It might be better to take a step back or a deep breath, and assure that you are not overly emotionally invested in a particular point of view here. You have provided a more reliable source, and kudos for that. The insertion of the word 'alleged' seems to be appropriate here, as there are sources that go both ways, and an assertion of fact either way could certainly be contested. I vote leaving the article as-is, unless any further info comes to light. Nothingofwater (talk) 17:48, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

al·le·ga·tion

noun

a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof.

Posting a tendentious assertion made by Gwenda Blair on belief without proof as though it were fact on her and your part is an allegation. A better conjecture is that the Trump Hotel MIGHT HAVE BEEN a "House of Assignation".

RichardBond (talk) 02:31, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

The distinction being that a brothel keeper sells the services of prostitutes. An owner of a "House of Assignation" does not intercede between customer and prostitute they rent space indiscriminately. RichardBond (talk) 02:41, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Please don't confuse editing an article to keep it in the WP guidelines with 'posting assertions'. I have made no evaluation of the veracity or reliability of EITHER source. They simply exist. And, unfortunately, they offer contrasting views on a topic where hard evidence isn't (and probably never will be) available. The best compromise seems to call out that the facts are 'alleged'. That has been done. Like 18 months ago. If you have a better way to reconcile the two differing sources, then let's hear it. But so far, I've heard nothing disqualifying about either source, aside from 'she's not from the area'. Talking about 'right' and 'wrong', and 'proof' isn't really helpful. The guidelines on the matter at WP:True go into more detail on the matter. Nothingofwater (talk) 01:28, 9 April 2019 (UTC)