Talk:Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood

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Requested move 17 December 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Ms. Vampire who lives in my neighborhood. (non-admin closure) Iffy★Chat -- 12:26, 27 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ms. Vampire who lives in my neighborhood. → Ms Vampire who lives in my neighborhood – I think this title should be moved to one without the two periods, unless there's a special (perhaps manga-related?) reason for not doing so. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:24, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There are two issues to deal with here: whether to put a full stop after Ms, and whether to put a full stop at the end of the title. Previous RMs have clearly shown preference to avoid ending titles with punctuation in such circumstances. ONR (talk) 21:16, 17 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: On one hand the title of the particular work is almost a complete English sentence thus a period (full stop) should appear after the last word in the title, on the other hand it will probably make searching for this a lot easier without the period (full stop) should not be used. As for usage of the titles outside of Wikipedia, from a quick Google search both titles seem to have similar appearance in the search results. Sakura Cartelet^Talk 21:41, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

My !Vote for this however would probably be Ms. Vampire who lives in my neighborhood as almost all of the sources in said quick Google search used a period (full stop) after the word Ms. while Ms (without the full stop) doesn't seem mentioned at all. Sakura Cartelet^Talk 21:48, 19 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support Ms. Vampire who lives in my neighborhood per above. ONR (talk) 09:29, 24 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 5 August 2020[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 00:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ms. Vampire who lives in my neighborhood → Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood. – MOS:TITLECAPS, and there is a ‘.’ in the end of English title by author, which is still not against MOS:AT—‘The final character should not be punctuation unless it is part of a name’. KONNO Yumeto 07:18, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood (without the dot): Caps should be per MOS:CT. The full stop is not part of a name, and is serving a purely decorative function, as in Bakuman, Damn (Kendrick Lamar album), Fun (band), Gangsta (manga), Janet (album), Kobato, Lovestrong, Mad Love (JoJo album), Melody (Japanese singer), Moon (visual novel), Shakira (album), The Goods: Live Hard, Sell Hard, Okay (album), Withering to Death, and Respect (magazine). —BarrelProof (talk) 22:57, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per manual of style, as quoted: MOS:AT—‘The final character should not be punctuation unless it is part of a name’. And as reliable sources mostly seem to use that name, it seems that we should stick to our manual of style.--Yaksar (let's chat) 20:21, 9 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Please note that the dot at the end of the proposed title was also discussed in the previous RM discussion of 17 December 2018, so the comments made in that discussion should also be considered here. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:08, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- In this case the full stop is not an inseparable (or even natural) part of the name. Your quote omits the examples that were provided along with the quoted statement: "(Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?)" In those two cases, unlike in this one, the title would be very strange if the final punctuation mark were omitted. Clearly, that phrase "unless it is part of a name" is not intended to be interpreted as applying to this type of instance. That would not match general Wikipedia practice (see the above list of similar cases) or MOS:TM. Note that MOS:TM includes a relevant example: it says to use "Skate", not "skate.". —BarrelProof (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So what would be the standard by which it is acceptable? We can find that reliable sources do not largely use the punctuation for Skate, but do for Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Should we defer to common use in reliable sources? It seems a stretch to say we should turn to examples that are explicitly a separate category, trademarks, to ignore the instructions in the relevant guideline.--Yaksar (let's chat) 22:24, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the principle is the same for "trademarks" as for other topics. When someone produces something and uses an unusual styling / capitalization / punctuation for the name they give it in a purely decorative manner, Wikipedia is not obliged to follow their self-published promotional formatting. Thus, when the formatting differs substantially from ordinary English, Wikipedia tends not to follow it unless independent reliable sources consistently do so. See also WP:TITLETM – "Invader ZIM" is the title of a television series (similar as with the title of a book), not a trademark in the sense you may be emphasizing. But on Wikipedia we format the title of the article about that topic as "Invader Zim". —BarrelProof (talk) 02:52, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighbourhood (without the dot): per manual of style. 36.77.139.145 (talk) 00:02, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Is the 'u' in "Neighbourhood" in your suggestion intentional? —BarrelProof (talk) 17:02, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm confused, The manual of style says "The final character should not be punctuation unless it is part of a name," right? So if we are citing the manual of style, why would the decision be to ignore what it says?--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Please see my comment above in response to the first remark you made saying something similar. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I see that your comment says it's not part of the name -- I guess the question is then, do you agree that if it was part of the name it should be in the title, as per our manual of style?--Yaksar (let's chat) 22:22, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - I think it's a question of whether the formatting is the natural styling of the name in ordinary English or not. If the name of the topic is in the form of a question ("Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"), or if it would be strange in some other way to omit the final punctuation mark ("Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!"), then it should be included. If the punctuation is merely decorative and differs from ordinary English formatting, it should be omitted. It is also helpful to study what is done in independent reliable sources that are written in English, and whether such sources consistently use a particular styling or not. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:47, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood (without the dot) per BarrelProof. It does appear like the terminal . is just a stylism, not really part of the title proper. Much like Macy*s or whatever. As an aside, having so many capitalied words, with only the "in" in lower-case, looks quite odd... but that is the MOS. I sometimes wonder if titles should just capitalise every word, including The, To and In, but that's a matter for some other place. — Amakuru (talk) 20:44, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.