Talk:Musar literature

Literature predating

There is a page for the Musar movement, a particular nineteenth-century movement which championed the study of a genre known as Musar literature. But the literature itself extends far beyond the Musar movement, and it was also championed by many of the opponents of the Musar movement. While it's helpful to have a discussion on the "Mussar movement" page of what Musar literature was studied by that movement, much can be discussed on this page that has no place on the "Mussar movement" page. Moreh405 (talk) 18:36, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

2 separate pages needed

Agree (see the bad-idea merger discussion on Talk:Musar movement) - the two pages need to be kept separate and intact as they are now. Two pages are needed:

Musar literature covering the whole breadth of the literature as a genre, much wider than just the classic texts also championed in the Musar movement. This page can describe the nature and range of the genre and its relationship to Rabbinic literature, Jewish philosophy, and Kabbalah etc.
Musar movement, a particular sociological movement that organised study of Musar literature as an unprecedented social movement. This describes a social movement, not a genre.

Comparison with other modern Jewish social movements shows why the two pages should not be merged (and conflated):

Hasidic Judaism should not be merged into the Kabbalah page - the first describes a social movement, the second a genre/theology. Hasidic thought page should not be merged with Kabbalah either, as its approach is different.
Haskalah (modern social movement) should not be merged with Jewish philosophy (genre/theology), even though it represented a non-Orthodox rationalisation of Judaism.
Zionism (modern social/political movement) should not be merged with Land of Israel (concept article).
Jewish studies (modern social/academic movement in Universities) should not be merged with Judaism (concept article).

Etc. Keep historical genre Musar literature and social movement Musar movement as 2 quite separate pages! April8 (talk) 00:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

{{editprotected}} "Musar literature" or "Mussar literature"? Regarding the spelling of the page, it's true that 2 out of 3 Google hits use the spelling "Mussar literature," but two out of three Google Scholar hits use "Musar literature." The latter spelling is unquestionably accepted as correct by academics. I'd make a case that whereas a better case can be made for "Mussar movement" with two s's, because that helps to evoke the way that members of the Mussar movement pronounced the word, no such case can be made for the case of "Musar literature." Moreh405 (talk) 03:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will agree to any consistent spelling, "mussar" or "musar". Frankly, I choose for "ss" because it is more common, but according to Hebrew grammar, "s" is the more correct spelling, since there is no dagesh in the samekh. Debresser (talk) 08:03, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest spelling it here with one "s." I believe that it should be within Wikipedia guidelines to follow the scholarly consensus even if the mistranslation is somewhat more common. Or am I misunderstanding Wikipedia guidelines? Ravyehoshuadavid (talk) 23:49, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. Using common English spelling is recommended when it is a widespread accepted spelling. In such cases as this one, where the word is not commmonly used in English and the ratio is only 2:1, I agree with you that we could - or probably should - use the more correct spelling with one "s". Let's wait another week, and if there are no objections, make the move. Debresser (talk) 18:46, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I might suggest adopting the spelling with one "s" at this point, unless we want to solicit more feedback from others. What do you think? Moreh405 (talk) 14:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. I changed the text of Musar literature and Musar movement to one "s" (except in quotes). We need an admin to make the moves to the redirecting page of Musar literature, though, so I added the {{editprotected}} templateDebresser (talk) 15:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Let me know if I've missed or misunderstood something. SilkTork *^YES! 15:47, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. All seems well to me. Debresser (talk) 18:34, 24 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correct spelling: Mussar or Musar

The almost 8 year old Mussar movement (2 "ss's") article was recently changed to Musar movement (1 "s") following discussions between a very small group of editors. Wider input is requested to arrive at fuller WP:CONSENSUS. Please see the discussions at Talk:Musar movement#Musar or Mussar. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 06:24, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)

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Proposed merge with Give musar

I came across this article as part of new page patrol. Having read through the article, reviewed the sources, and also looked at other sources on the concept of Musar [[1]], I'm left with the impression that the phrase "Give musar" just refers to the practice of providing ethical guidance on the basis of Musar literature. This article as written provides a bunch of guidelines as to when and how one is or isn't to "give musar", but it completely avoids actually explaining what "musar" is, and I can only imagine that this article would be extremely confusing to anyone unfamiliar with the concept of musar and of Hasidic Judaism in general. As such, I would suggest redirecting this article to Mussar literature, and add its content to a section in that article about "giving musar". _signed,Rosguill ^talk 00:19, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page Give musar is deleted (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Give musar). --תנא קמא (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]