Talk:Near-close back unrounded vowel

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These phonetics articles are going a bit too far. It's fairly reasonable to create articles about sounds that don't have symbols but which obviously are used in certain languages (even if I would prefer not to create separate articles on them), but articles about sounds that don't have symbols and that aren't even contrastive is pure original research. I'd like to have some very good arguments not to AfD this.

Peter ^Isotalo 23:21, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose you're right. The source is the IPA Handbook. I suppose the article on ʊ could just mention that an unrounded version exists, especially since unstressed vowels are typically mid-centralized. Without a known language that has this vowel in stressed position, I'm not going to argue for keeping this article if you want to delete/redirect it. kwami 00:10, 26 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If it's in the IPA handbook, I'd say keep it. -Branddobbe 07:31, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, because it only occurs unstressed, I can certainly see Peter's point, Handbook or no. However, it is claimed to be the target value of this vowel:

This vowel [meaning /ɯ/], which occurs only in unstressed syllables, is often represented as /ə/ but does not correspond to the mid central quality associated with schwa. It is a fronted and lowered high back unrounded vowel [placed right where /ʊ/ would be in the chart]; hence the symbol chosen here for its transcription. The chart represents target articulations of the vowels, which are normally 'undershot' in connected speech, resulting in more centralized qualities.

kwami 11:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm redirecting it to close back unrounded vowel. The variation type is just too common to merit a separate article. I don't think Cruz-Ferreria, who wrote the entry in the handbook would ever agree to this' kind of separate completely separate treatment and we can't really fractionalize the sound articles more than they already are. It's just too specific, especially when using obscure diacritics. On my comp the bloody thing looks like some sort of ink blob. I don't think we should have separate articles on IPA symbols that can't really stand on their own.

Peter ^Isotalo 08:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted - it is in the IPA handbook; the same source defines [ʊ] as rounded. We also have about the same amount of examples as on mid back unrounded vowel, and nobody is arguing to delete that article. Peter238 (talk) 12:37, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

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Sample audio not correct

The sample audio is closer to [ɵ] than [ɯ]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.200.16.217 (talk) 17:46, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To me, it sounds like a narrow glide from [ɯ̞] to a weakly rounded [ʉ] or perhaps a somewhat lower vowel ([ʉ̞] or [ɵ]). It's diphthongal, much like English /uː/ in many dialects. It should probably be removed from here. Kbb2 (ex. Mr KEBAB) (talk) 02:23, 23 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]