Talk:Our Lady of the Pillar

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pre-1723 traditions?

Apparently, the tradition of the Marian apparition can be traced to the 15th century, but the Spanish article only references the existence of "bas-reliefs" showing the scene dated to the 1430s. I am looking for written traditions older than 1723 which describe the apparition, and especially for evidence of the 12 October date prior to 1723 (es-wiki cites 1613 as its first introduction but has no reference on that). --dab (𒁳) 12:34, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Specifically, what was the role of Calixtus III, and can we get the text of his 1456 bull somewhere? I am asking because this bull does not appear to be mentioned, at all, in the much more extensive article on es-wiki. --dab (𒁳) 14:33, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

answer, this does not establish the tradition of the apparition, just the existence of the image. Nougués y Secall is an "apologetic" source, presenting (rather indirect) evidence of the tradition going back to the 1st century, but this is not, apparently, relevant to the tradition of the apparition itself. --dab (𒁳) 15:03, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Patroness

Hello, I've just deleted the mention as Patroness of Spain (being the Immaculate Conception of Mary) and of Hispanic World (being Our Lady of Guadalupe), but added the Patroness of the Spanish region of Aragon and its capital Zaragoza. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.240.28.74 (talk) 11:31, 25 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Supposed death of Mary

The year AD 40 is the earliest recognised Marian apparition in the Catholic Church, dating to a time when Mary, the mother of Jesus, was still alive.

This seems to assume that Mary died later, but my understanding of the Assumption of Mary is that she was taken bodily to Heaven, and the Church has never pronounced definitively on whether or not she ever died at all. Pope Pius XII's 1950 declaration "leaves open the question of whether Mary died or whether she was raised to eternal life without bodily death". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]