Talk:Phan Bội Châu

Birthplace

Where was he born?

The article says "Sa Nam village, Ðông-liệt District, in the region between Mount Hùng and the Lam River." What is the current location of this place? Badagnani (talk) 20:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Restoration Flag?

"The Vietnam Restoration League came up with a proposed flag design. Previously, Vietnam never had a flag, only banners to represent royalty. Their flag idea had 5 five-pointed stars, arranged in a square with a star in the middle. It symbolized the five regions of Vietnam. The national flag had red stars on a yellow background, and the military flag had a red background with white stars. The yellow represented their race, the red represented fire which represented their location to the south of China (see I Ching), and the white represented the metal of their weapons..."

What did this flag look like? Can anyone have more references or links. please? Le Anh-Huy 05:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Which country?

If this was before the French seized (and renamed) northern Vietnam as Annam, was the country in which he was born simply called Vietnam (under the Nguyen Dynasty)? Badagnani (talk) 20:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Vietnam had called itself many names throughout history:

• Văn Lang - during the Hung Vuong era
• Âu Lạc - during An Duong Vuong's reign
• Vạn Xuân - a brief independence period from 544 to 602
• Đại Cồ Việt - 968-1054
• Đại Việt - 1054-1400; 1428-1804
• Đại Ngu - 1400-1407
• Việt Nam - 1804-1839; 1945-present
• Đại Nam - 1839-1945.

DHN (talk) 20:55, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow, this is good. So it was "Dai Nam" at that time (the "enhanced" name of the country). Badagnani (talk) 21:00, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Emperor

Should we mention that Tự Đức was the emperor when he was born? Badagnani (talk) 20:10, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Geographical info

Why was "between Mount Hùng and the Lam River" removed? Badagnani (talk) 21:09, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems superfluous. If the reader doesn't know where "Dong Liet District" is, it's unlikely they would know where "Mount Hung" or "Lam River" is. DHN (talk) 21:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it's poetic and encyclopedic, if we want to treat the subject in a thorough way. Like Kim Jong-Il was born on Mount Paekdusan or Abraham Lincoln was born in a log cabin. Badagnani (talk) 21:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen much significance placed on his birthplace in his hagiography. The only thing that consistently gets mentioned is that he was born in Nghe An. DHN (talk) 21:25, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Unresolved issues

One of the thorniest issues regarding his final capture is the identity of his betrayer. While Phan himself points the finger at Nguyen Thuong Huyen, Cuong De think it's Lam Duc Thu (Vinh Sinh). According to Hoang Van Chi, his betrayer was Ho Chi Minh. Joseph Buttinger, in "A Dragon Embattled" (New York: Praeger, 1967), also implicated Ho Chi Minh (for 150,000 French Indochina piastre). Sophie Quinn-Judge and William J. Duiker, both biographers of Ho, dispute this theory. DHN (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Naming convention

Note that Phan Boi Chau is one of the few Vietnamese who consistently gets referred to by his surname (Phan) instead of his supposed given name Chau (his birth name was Phan Van San). This article should reflect that convention. DHN (talk) 16:32, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Britannica calls him "Chau". It was Vietnamese custom in Phan Boi Chau's time to use the family name formally, and this is a little fossil remnant of that custom. IMO, it is arbitrary and confusing to write this one article in such a unique and precious style. Other Vietnamese of his generation, for example Phan Chu Trinh, are now invariably referred to in modern given name style. Kauffner (talk) 02:26, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of what this individual was called, the first paragraph at the top of the page is nonsensical. First it says, correctly, that the family name in Phan. Then it says that the given name is Phan, which is nonsense. If he was an exception to the usual naming convention, and was called "Phan," the second sentence ought to read that way. I tried to edit it, but that short paragraph must be part of a template or something, and I couldn't get to it. Can somebody please help? Terry J. Carter (talk) 05:43, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Name

There needs to be a reference to how it sounds like Fanboy Chau. Thank you. 78.150.12.229 (talk) 01:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Question

What does the bold portion of the following passage from vi:WP mean?

Phan Bội Châu tên thật là Phan Văn San (潘文珊), tự là Hài Thu,

Badagnani (talk) 17:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Tên tự is the Chinese-style courtesy name. His courtesy name is Hài Thu. Similarly, Ho Chi Minh's name is Nguyen Sinh Cung, and his courtesy name is Tất Thành. DHN (talk) 19:51, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

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Anarchism

@Asilvering, I see that you restored the anarchism project tag. What is the subject's connection? czar 05:26, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

I removed the Vietnamese anarchists category, since the subject doesn't appear to be frequently referred to as an anarchist in this article, but the Anarchism in Vietnam article has statements like Anarchism was first introduced to the Vietnamese anti-colonial movement during the 1900s, by the early nationalist leader Phan Bội Châu. and several other paragraphs mainly devoted to him. -- asilvering (talk) 13:13, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

@Asilvering; @Czar: I wrote the anarchism in Vietnam article, so I think I can provide some insight. While Phan was certainly influenced by anarchist ideas, having been close with anarchist activists, and helped introduce them to Vietnam, labelling him an "anarchist" is a bit of a stretch, as it was only one of many influences on his political philosophy. He's certainly a relevant figure in the history of anarchism in Vietnam, and thus I think it's worth keeping his article under the Anarchism WikiProject.

But I also support the removal of the Vietnamese anarchists category from this article. Like other anti-colonial figures influenced by anarchism, but that didn't self-identify as anarchists, I think labelling them as such would be misleading at best and colonialist at worst. As far as I know, the only notable Vietnamese anti-colonial activist from that generation that explicitly self-identified as an anarchist was Nguyễn An Ninh. --Grnrchst (talk) 19:23, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@Grnrchst, would you be able to add a citation to this article along those lines? czar 05:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Relation with Lý Tự Trọng

There is a misunderstanding in Final captute section. Following these two Vietnamese sources baohatinh.vn and danang.gov.vn, Lý Tự Trọng shot inspector Legrand to protect lecturer Phan Bôi, not Phan Bội Châu. Leemyongpak (talk) 08:04, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Removed as the cited source is unverifiable, and the 2 above sources proved it is a misunderstanding. Leemyongpak (talk) 01:00, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Last meeting with his wife

In Marriage and family's citation - Vĩnh Sính page 28 and some pages around, there is no information about the last meeting between Phan and his wife. Leemyongpak (talk) 00:38, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

The involvement of Nguyễn Bá Trác in Phan's house arrest

There is no citation for this involvement in Final years' house arrest. It looks like a baseless rumor. Leemyongpak (talk) 00:48, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Removed due to lack of source. Leemyongpak (talk) 01:30, 10 June 2023 (UTC)