Talk:Pinkan Mambo/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: MathewTownsend (talk · contribs) 16:55, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this! MathewTownsend (talk) 16:55, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

review

as all the citations are in Indonesian, I'll concentrate on the prose.
lede

lede sentence needs to state most important points. The prose in the rest of the lede should be clearer.

"is an Indonesian singer." - (suggestion) is an Indonesian pop singer, who achieved success as the vocalist in the Indonesian music duo Ratu between 2000 and 2004, then continued her career as a soloist.

Took an adaptation of your wording.

"Raised by her grandmother in Jakarta, Mambo began singing at an early age but only began to sing in public as a teenager." Sentence is clunky. Is "Raised by her grandmother" related to Mambo's beginning to sing at an early age?

(suggestion) Mambo began singing at an early age but only sang in public when she began a career as a café singer in senior high school. She performed in numerous venues throughout Jakarta. (are there dates available?)

Suggestion is not in accordance with the article; she began singing in public while in junior high school, but found her first job in senior high school. Have trimmed the sentence a bit.

"In 2000 she joined Maia Estianty in forming Ratu after she met Estianty's husband Ahmad Dhani, who had her for several casting calls." - this is too confusing - needs some context for Maia Estianty (songwriter and musical producer Maia Estianty, or something) and for Ahmad Dhani also. (Maia Estianty's article says she and her husband formed the band.)

They did.

Not clear what Ahmad Dhani's role was/is.

After getting Ratu off the ground, for the early phase of the group's career he didn't really get too involved. Now, after Mambo left...

"in forming Ratu after she met Estianty's husband Ahmad Dhani, who had her for several casting calls." - The role of Ahmad Dhani and Maia Estianty should be clarified. Mambo was the first vocalist but it doesn't sound like the band was her concept, else why did Dhani hold casting calls? Some more detail regarding Mambo's role in forming the group would be helpful. See quote from the article on Ratu (band)

Ratu was an Indonesian music duo formed in 1999 with Maia Estianty, then the wife of musician Ahmad Dhani, on instruments and Pinkan Mambo on vocals. Ratu entered the Indonesian musical scene with their first album, Bersama (Together; 2003). After a short break caused by Mambo's departure in 2004, the group formed anew with Mulan Kwok as vocalist.

Clarified

also "who had her for several casting calls" is clumsy.

Changed

"The duo was successful, but because of conflict between the two members and an unintended pregnancy, Mambo left the group." vague - whose "unintended pregnancy"? (suggestion) Because of conflict between Mambo and (Estianty?), Mambo left the group." or some other wording. (It sounds like Ratu (band) continued after Mambo left.

It did, with Mulan Jameela on vocals. How's this?

"Early life"

"She was the family's first child; they later had two boys." wordy (suggestion) She is the eldest child and has two younger brothers."

"She was the eldest, and only girl, of three children born to the couple." - How's this?

"When she was five years old, her parents divorced and, not long afterwards, Mambo was sent to live with her grandmother as her mother, who received custody, could not afford to send Mambo to school on her seamstress' salary." - just too wordy - too much info in one sentence. (suggestion) When she was five, her parents divorced and Mambo was sent to live with her grandmother as her mother could not afford to send Mambo to school."

Reworded a bit, kept the bit about the mother receiving custody as it sometimes happens that the father gets custody

"Life with her grandmother was strict and, as she felt depressed without her father," - the subject of this sentence is the "grandmother", so grammatically the "as she" refers to the grandmother.

Good point, changed

"was known among her family and friends as a precociously feminine child, enjoying dresses and make-up." maybe could be clarified as most young girls enjoy dressing up and playing with makeup. e.g. the popularity of Barbie. "Precociously feminine" - not sure what this means - like reaching sexual maturity at age five or something?

I was considering "girly girl", which is more or less what she described herself as, but that has more negative connotations. Changed to "very". For comparison, Estianty was a bit of a tomboy.

"While in elementary school she began singing along with songs by her favourite singers Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston while in her room." repetition "while in elementary school" "while in her room".

Rephrased

"Her mother later convinced her to try and sing in public, believing that Mambo had the ability to be a professional singer." - when was the "later" - should be in chronological order.

Changed.

"Ratu"

"pioneered by international bands like" - such as is preferred to "like"

Changed

"and Mambo convinced Dhani to hire her by calling incessantly after meeting him at Pondok Indah Mall in South Jakarta; she had chosen to look for Dhani because of his previous experience with new singers. After her sixth casting call, she was chosen to be the vocalist of the newly formed group, named Ratu, meaning Queen."

"calling incessantly after meeting him at Pondok Indah Mall in South Jakarta" - perhaps this could be worded in a more encyclopedic way - "calling incessantly" is rather pejorative. Also, what is the significant of meeting him at Pondok Indah Mall? Perhaps expand on the importance of this. Met him shopping or what?

Clarified a little

"she had chosen to look for Dhani" - did she stalk him to the mall?

No, how's "seek out"? Clarified a little.

"because of his previous experience with new singers." - perhaps expand on this? I assume the "new singers" were successful, else why bother to track him down. Sounds like Maia Estianty had no power in the band. Were the "casting calls" for (pop) singers in general or for Ratu? (confusing)

If you look at her and Ratu's article, she really didn't have much power. Added the name of a singer whom he had helped (no article on the singer yet). How's the new phrasing?

"Solo career"

Her debut solo album, Aku Tahu Rasanya (I Know How It Feels), sold well, and the single "Kasmaran" ("Passion") received much airplay. - vague "sold well" - how well? - "received much airplay" - how much?

Not in the sources (or any others I could find online), changed to "successful"

"Meanwhile, Mambo's cousin introduced her to a classmate named Sandy Sanjaya. Mambo and Sanjaya, after three months dating, agreed to be married.[7] In April 2006 they had a daughter, named Michele Ashley Rezya." - too much irrelevant detail. (unless there is a section "Personal life" but out of place here in the paragraph that is mostly about her singing career.

Although Mambo married and gave birth to a daughter in 2006, she continued her singing her singing career, drifting towards more of a rock sound.
I had chosen to do away with a personal life section, but I've inserted one at the bottom

" and cutting back on her femininity" - what does this mean? Maybe some description of what this "femininity" is in her case. Suggest some description of her stage costuming and singing style that demonstrates to the reader what this means.

"She and Sanjaya divorced on 14 October 2009, after having been separated for several months;[13] towards the end of their relationship, Sanjaya spent more time in Bali than in the couple's home in Jakarta.[11]" - too much detail - perhaps needs to go into a "Personal life" section.

(suggestion) She divorced in 2009.

Done

"That year she began dating association football player Febrianto Wijaya. As of 2012 the couple are considering marriage." - too much irrelevant detail, unless it's put in a "Personal life" section.

Done

Review summary

needs prose fixes as listed above.
This article seems mostly about the personal life of this singer. There's little in the text describing her singing style etc., and only vague references to level of success, only that her first album "sold well" and received "much airplay". No info on her success in the film.
Needs beefing up. More info this singers style, career, professional achievement, evidence of her success, etc. Otherwise it is a biography of a young woman of unclear talent, who had some level of professional success.
Way too much trivial detail about her personal life.

Article will be on hold while these points are addressed.

MathewTownsend (talk) 19:20, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. The sources, sadly, are mostly about her personal life (probably 80% of the articles I've seen are about her relationship with the football player). I'll see if I can get sales figures. She hasn't won any major singing awards, and didn't continue her venture into acting. I'll see if I can get more on her on-stage persona. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:56, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a bit of performing style. Her solo career was less than stellar, and I've been unable to find any awards. There are a couple with Ratu though, which I've added. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Google searches:

Passing mentions only in Rolling Stone (2nd search); passing mentions in Suara Merdeka (other spelling has some okay hits, but no numbers)
reply

The article is very much improved. I've copy edited some, hopefully ok.[1] Remaining problem is some confusion about her personal history. Although there is a "Personal history" section, personal history info remains in the article, so it is hard to put the continuity together.

e.g. In the article it says:

"The pregnancy also led to the cancellation of Mambo's wedding to Meiza Reza Tobroni, as the father of her unborn child was another man.[2][9] Mambo gave birth to a boy, Muhammad Alfa Rezel, on 28 January 2005."
"After marriage and the birth of another child,"
"She divorced the following year."

In the "Personal history" section it says:

n 2005 Mambo's cousin introduced her to a classmate named Sandy Sanjaya. Mambo and Sanjaya, after three months dating, agreed to be married.[7] In April 2006 they had a daughter, named Michele Ashley Rezya.[2] She and Sanjaya divorced on 14 October 2009, after having been separated for several months;[15] towards the end of their relationship, Sanjaya spent more time in Bali than in the couple's home in Jakarta.[13] In 2011 she began dating association football player Febrianto Wijaya. As of 2012 the couple are considering marriage."

Could all the personal history be in one place, i.e. in the "Personal history" section? The other mentions in the career sections (except the pregnancy since apparently that was a factor in leaving the band) don't add anything, I don't think. e.g. I had to do a double-take, trying to figure out when she had the boy and when she had the girl, etc.

Think I got it.

Also, was the doll named "Lolita" or is that a translation? Lolita is usually considered to be a sexually precocious, seductive pre-adolescent girl, stemming from Nabokov's book Lolita. Does a "Lolita" doll mean something else in Jakarta?

MathewTownsend (talk) 19:31, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- Not sure about the context here, but in Japan there is something called Lolita fashion that has no sexual connotations--just Asian girls trying to dress like Queen Victoria. Not sure if it has caught on in Indonesia though. Mark Arsten (talk) 21:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - The source says "saat membaca sebuah majalah, aku kecantol dengan sebuah boneka Inggris yang dikenal dengan nama Lolita. Boneka lucu yang cantik dengan pakaiannya yang unik dan sopan." or "when reading a magazine, I found myself interested in a doll [Inggris literally means English, but I haven't the slightest clue what's meant there; Google suggests plastic dolls] known by the name Lolita. A cute, beautiful doll, with unique and polite clothes." I'm judging that there may have been a label under it which said "Lolita". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

reply

Well, the google search is plastic dolls of all sorts, including infants and even a man. Perhaps you could just leave out the Lolita mention, since I'm assuming the Lolita fashion suggestion doesn't fit. Maybe just describe the image she was seeking to portray, without labeling it, since no links fit? What did she want her public to see her as? MathewTownsend (talk) 00:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How's this? The Google search was for "boneka Inggris", but I'm still unclear on what the term means (Mrs. Crisco has no clue either). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:48, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

comment

ok, it's better now. I made a couple more edits.[2]

GA review-see WP:WIAGA for criteria (and here for what they are not)

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose: clear and concise, respects copyright laws, correct spelling and grammar:

B. Complies with MoS for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Provides references to all sources:

B. Provides in-line citations from reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Main aspects are addressed:

B. Remains focused:
Does it follow the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
Pass!

Congratulations! MathewTownsend (talk) 00:57, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:07, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]