Talk:Primary Wave (company)

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BMG

http://www.musicweek.com/news/read/bmg-to-acquire-significant-primary-wave-assets-in-150m-strategic-alliance/055924 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.204.135.181 (talk) 11:31, 3 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Changes

Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. Added to the article, but with less promotional wording/phrasing.

In October 2022 Brookfield Asset Management Inc. announced that it would commit $1.7bn US to fund new acquisitions. The deal also brings on Creative Artists Agency as a strategic partner and minority investor in Primary Wave, tapping the talent agency’s film, television, theatrical and branding teams.:
new developments in the company history:
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button)^[1]^[2]:

Janochaj (talk) 19:50, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have added this information to the article, but using less promotional language and including additional detail. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:44, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Wall Street Journal https://www.wsj.com/articles/brookfield-bets-2-billion-on-music-in-deal-with-primary-wave-11665046802. Retrieved 8 May 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
^ "Primary Wave Music Strikes $2 Billion Deal With Brookfield to Invest in Music Copyrights". Variety. Retrieved 8 May 2023.

Proposed Change

Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. Added to the article, but with less promotional wording/phrasing and a better source

In April 2023, Primary Wave signed an international partnership deal with Mumbai's Times Music. The deal will see Primary Wave invest significant capital in the company.:
Major news in the company history.:
References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button)^[1]:

Janochaj (talk) 19:52, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Janochaj, unfortunately I can't implement this edit as requested. The source you provided appears to just be a press release, not actual journalism, even if it's hosted by the Times of India. Wikipedia requires coverage in independent, secondary sources. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:34, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do have a few other sources for this one.

https://musically.com/2023/04/26/primary-wave-eyes-indian-catalogues-with-times-music-deal/

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/primary-wave-makes-strategic-investment-in-indian-music-company-times-music-in-deal-worth-100m/

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2023/04/25/primary-wave-bets-big-on-bollywood-with-times-music-deal/ Janochaj (talk) 18:26, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have found a better source (the WSJ), and added a relevant sentence to the article. Partially implemented. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:27, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ The Times of India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/times-music-to-partner-us-primary-wave/articleshow/99773054.cms?from=mdr. Retrieved 8 May 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

Profile Cleanup - Undisclosed Payments

This flag has been on our page for a while from past updates to the page. This was before my time as an employee at the company, but am looking for assistance to help clean up the page and have it operating within the guidelines of Wikipedia.

I am happy to provide new / additional sources for each section currently outlined in order to change the tone of the page and have it written with an impartial viewpoint. Ultimately it is my goal to have the label removed from the top of the page so that it can live on as a real source of information on the company. Janochaj (talk) 21:43, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Janochaj, thanks for your desire to improve the article. You can see from this XTools analysis that currently, over 50% of the article was written by an editor who (I believe) never disclosed any connection to Primary Wave. I would recommend taking a look back through their contributions and making suggestions here for replacing what they wrote with a less promotional tone and better sources, where possible. You could also suggest removing material outright if it cannot be improved. I will take a look at your suggestions and implement them as appropriate. For an example of how this worked at another page, you could look at Talk:Chicago Mercantile Exchange. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:33, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Changes - Top Section "About" Primary Wave

Would like to better source and explain the introductory paragraph for the page. I have re-written this section with some quotes from articles and provided more sources to corroborate this information.

Primary Wave Music is a private, independent publisher of iconic and legendary music founded in January 2006 by music executive Larry Mestel. Since then, the company has expanded into talent management, film and TV production, digital and brand marketing taking on a strategy “which is based around a very long-term growth model of adding value to our artists’ income streams” by producing biographical films, brand partnerships, Broadway shows, destination events, podcasts and more. To this day, the songs represented by Primary Wave include over 800 Top 10 singles, and over 400 #1 hits.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/media/bob-marley-primary-wave.html

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/01/primary-wave-music-natalia-nastaskin-publishing-catalog-sales

https://entertainmenttoday.net/nocat/22567/2023/02/steven-van-zandt-joins-the-boom-in-sales-of-music-catalogs-and-rights/

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/larry-mestel-primary-wave-has-over-1-billion-to-spend-on-music-rights-and-its-not-wasting-any-time2/ Janochaj (talk) 18:50, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Simply put, the language you have written is not encyclopedic. It reads like a press release. Wikipedia is required to be neutral. Words like "iconic", "legendary", etc. This page is not designed to promote Primary Wave. It is an encyclopedic summary of the company, not an advertisement. Please read through this section and Wikipedia's policies in general, and make a different suggestion. —Ganesha811 (talk) 19:59, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Understood. I am trying to get a feel for tone and look at your previous changes and competitor pages for how things are worded within the guidelines. Here is another pass I have been working on to help clean this up.

Primary Wave Music is a privately-owned and independent music publisher that was established in January 2006 by music executive Larry Mestel. Initially, the company was primarily focused on music publishing and administration but has since expanded its operations to include talent management, film and television production, digital and brand marketing. The company's approach is centered around a long-term growth model that aims to enhance the income streams of its artists by producing biographical films, Broadway shows, brand partnerships, podcasts, and destination events. In their catalog, Primary Wave Music represents more than 800 Top 10 singles and over 400 #1 hits to date. Janochaj (talk) 19:30, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is somewhat improved in tone and I would be willing to implement part of this edit request, with modifications. However, one key thing - the lead doesn't generally need to be cited, but anything not cited in the lead should be found somewhere in the body, cited. Do you have citations that support the "long-term growth model" and "400 #1 hits" parts? —Ganesha811 (talk) 15:27, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you and understood on references. I am going to start working on rewording / citing the early years section so we can push forward toward the goal of removing the tag at the top. I will make sure anything not cited gets included/cited in these sections.

Growth model talked about here: https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/larry-mestel-primary-wave-has-over-1-billion-to-spend-on-music-rights-and-its-not-wasting-any-time2/

1 hits referenced here

https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/primary-wave-buys-whitney-houston-hits-as-part-of-deal-with-songwriters-shannon-rubicam-and-george-merrill/ Janochaj (talk) 16:06, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wanted to make sure these references would suffice. I'd like to get working on the next section to clean up and get the page in good standing. Janochaj (talk) 15:54, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look soon and let you know my opinion - thanks for the reminder. —Ganesha811 (talk) 15:59, 25 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have partially implemented this edit, using the second source but not the first - generally, I would consider an interview answer too close to a primary source to use it in a way that could be promotional. —Ganesha811 (talk) 02:31, 31 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Changes to 2016-present section

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. A reviewer felt that this edit would not improve the article.

I am now looking to clean up the 2016-present: Acquisitions area to help get closer to removing the flag on the page.

We should remove this first line as it is promotional: Currently one of the largest indie music publishers in the United States, Primary Wave markets the copyrights of over 15,000 songs from the catalogs of various artists and songwriters.[11]

And then can edit the first few sections up until 2019 as follows:

The platform for a second phase of expansion was established in 2016, when Primary Wave received $300 million of funding from multiple large institutional investors, forming Primary Wave's first music based fund. Primary Wave then purchased Smokey Robinson's song catalogue for $22 million. (https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/primary-wave-larry-mestel-smokey-robinson-300-million-blackrock-partnership-7525653/) Earlier this year the company picked up the publishing on legendary Stax Records guitar great Steve Cropper, who co-wrote Knock on Wood” with Eddie Floyd, “In the Midnight Hour” with Wilson Pickett and “(Sittin’ On) The Dock of the Bay” with Otis Redding.

By 2017, Primary Wave acquired a stake in Rough Trade Publishing in a joint venture valued at more than $5 Million (https://variety.com/2017/music/news/primary-wave-invests-5-million-in-joint-venture-with-rough-trade-publishing-1202402988/), the music catalogs of Glenn Gould (https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/primary-wave-acquires-rights-music-pianist-glenn-gould/) and Tom Cochrane (https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/music/ct-ott-tom-cochrane-0105-story.html).

In January 2018, Primary Wave acquired 80% of Chris Blackwell's share of Bob Marley and Blue Mountain Music’s catalogs including songs by Marley as well as Toots and the Maytals and Free.(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/media/bob-marley-primary-wave.html) (https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/primary-wave-acquires-share-bob-marley-publishing-catalog-blackrock-blue-mountain-music-8094231/). That same month, Mestel closed a marketing and publishing administration deal with Alice Cooper (https://www.billboard.com/pro/publishing-briefs-alice-cooper-primary-wave-umpg-signs-josh-hoge/) before ending the year by adding the catalogs of Kenny Loggins, Count Basie and an interest in Sly & The Family Stone. (https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/12/06/primary-wave-sly-stone-catalog/) Janochaj (talk) 15:43, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - wanted to follow up here and see if these changes can be made so we can continue to move forward on the goal to remove the violation tag. Janochaj (talk) 16:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I will take a look soon and let you know my opinion. Thanks for your proposal. —Ganesha811 (talk) 19:27, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

These edits are mostly very similar to already-existing content, with existing sources, and where there are details different, they are promotional ("guitar great", "legendary") or unneeded. However, the article is in a reasonable state and not in need of dramatic cleanup, so I have removed the COI template at the top of the article. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:32, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you @Ganesha811. I really appreciate all of your help navigating the page. Janochaj (talk) 14:27, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Wall Street Journal https://www.wsj.com/articles/brookfield-bets-2-billion-on-music-in-deal-with-primary-wave-11665046802. Retrieved 8 May 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[2] "Primary Wave Music Strikes $2 Billion Deal With Brookfield to Invest in Music Copyrights". Variety. Retrieved 8 May 2023.

[3] The Times of India https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/times-music-to-partner-us-primary-wave/articleshow/99773054.cms?from=mdr. Retrieved 8 May 2023. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

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