Talk:Prince Abdi

Issues

I have an issues, which are mainly keeping my information, which are not true on here. I dont know who you guys are but please delete my wikipedia page asap. Thank you. Prince — Preceding unsigned comment added by Princeabdi (talk • contribs) 23:21, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

There were a number of factual errors as well as formatting and prose issues on the page that I corrected. It was suggested that Abdi is a British citizen based on this eastlondlines piece [1], which mistakenly claims that he was "born and bred in Brixton". In actuality, Abdi was born in Somalia and only moved to the UK in the 1980s with his family (he states as much in this video [2]). He spent the next few years in Brixton, and now apparently lives in Shoreditch. The "style and reception" section was also too promotional and was probably the main reason for the promotional tag that was placed on the page. This issue was likewise touched on earlier here. Additionally, the url pointing to Abdi's official website leads instead to a domain parking page (c.f. [3]). Middayexpress (talk) 16:20, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

A number of those edits were by 90.211.247.106 (talk · contribs) diff, who continually adds misinformation about Prince Abdi, such as his being born in Ireland in 1987.--Auric talk 18:17, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Indeed. Middayexpress (talk) 14:31, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

The comment on the style and reception heading “reviews of his stand-up performances have generally been positive,” is not from any of the sources, so although the promotional material has been removed it has been replaced it with a POV comment.

The video where Abdi says he and his family came to the UK in the 1980s is actually this one. The East London Lines article refers to him as an Anglo-Somalian comic. Aside from this he came to the UK as a young child, he has now lived in the UK for over 20 years, the likelihood that he is not a British citizen is very remote. Majority of the articles refer to him as Somalian-born or Somali referring to his country of birth and ethnicity.

To refer to him as a Somali stand-up comedian, actor and writer, based in the United Kingdom suggests that his permanent residence is Somalia and he is visiting the UK. It would be more accurate to refer to him as Somali-born British stand-up comedian, actor and writer. It is also misleading to remove the British categories and replace them with Somalian categories from the article as this implies that he is active as a comedian and actor in Somalia. Tanbircdq (talk) 23:00, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Each promotional quote that was previously in the "style and reception" section raved about Abdi's performances, so it wouldn't be inaccurate to indicate on that basis that his performances were generally well-received. That is, unless those quotes were not representative of the general reception of his performances to begin with. The eastlondonlines piece indicates that he is an "Anglo-Somalian" comedian under the misimpression that he was "born and bred in Brixton". However, it's established that he was actually born in Somalia, and that he emigrated to the UK at a later point. Suggesting that Abdi is "based in the United Kingdom" and that he "resides in Shoreditch" likewise does not imply that his permanent residence is Somalia. It implies that he is based/lives in the UK. Middayexpress (talk) 14:31, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I did not say your comment was inaccurate I said it was your POV opinion, whereas the previous information were actual direct quotes of the reviews from those articles.

On this video he says; “I grew up in Brixton.” therefore the the line “he was bought up in Brixton, London,” which you changed to “he lived the next few years in Brixton, London” should actually be changed to “he grew up in Brixton, London.” On the same video he mentions the comics; Eddie Murphy, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock to be his major influences, so why did you remove these from influences on the infobox?

By changing the opening paragraph from “Somali-born British” to “Somalian based in the United Kingdom,” thus removing “British” and adding “based in the United Kingdom,” this denotes he is not British but a person from Somalia who is based in the United Kingdom. If you look at other similar examples for general consensus; Mila Kunis is not a Ukrainian actress, Nicki Minaj is not a Trinidadian singer, Natalie Portman is not an Israeli actress and the list could go on and on. As you have said he emigrated to the UK therefore it is more accurate to refer to him as Somali-born British. What is the reason for your objection to him being referred to as this?

What is the logic you have used to replace the British categories with Somalian ones? Do you dispute that he is British? Has he been on the comedy circuit in Somalia or starred in Somalian television or in Somalian films? Or is this for SPA reasons? Tanbircdq (talk) 02:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

The assertion that Abdi's performances were generally well-received can obviously only be inaccurate if the unanimously enthusiastic quotes that it paraphrases were not broadly representative of his performances' reception to begin with. All I did was rewrite that promotional material, per the maintenance tag that was placed on the page. Regarding the comedic influences, I removed them because I thought the youtube link was the same one as earlier (which doesn't mention them), but it was apparently a new link. I've adjusted that now. At any rate, Abdi said he was brought up in Brixton. He also says in that other video that he arrived in the UK in the 1980s with his family, and it's established that he was born in Somalia. This is why the Somalian categories are there, not because he may or may not have toured Somalia. It's the eastlondonlines claim that he was "born and bred in Brixton" which is inaccurate. This is also why the Mila Kunis et al. analogy is out-of-place. Anyway, here's [4] a link where he indicates that he is happy to be a naturalized British citizen and Somali as well. He's basically a Somali-centered comedian and much of his routine revolves around his community. Middayexpress (talk) 15:54, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

The issue was that the comment “reviews of his stand-up performances have generally been positive,” was a general opinion about the reviews rather than paraphrasing what is in the review, however this has now been addressed. Yes it was a new link not “apparently”, which I presume you did not view before removing the entries. My question was not whether why you included the Somalian categories, my question was why you decided to ‘remove’ the British categories and ‘replace’ them with Somalian ones? Mila Kunis was born in Ukraine and moved to the United States at the age of seven just as Abdi was born in Somalia and moved to the United Kingdom, so how is this analogy out of place?

He also says he “grew up in Brixton, London” on the Somali Week Festival video. As per most comedians his routine depends on his audience. On the Somali Week Festival video he says that the majority of the places where he has performed were for English people and abroad for expatriates. But when he does Somali events he includes the culture and language. He also says he started out on the predominately ‘black’ circuit.

I have changed; “material draws from his roots in Somalia, as well as his time in Brixton and general topics,” to his “material draws from him being from Brixton, observations, his background and roots from Somalia and general topics,” to reflect the direct quote from him on this article which reads; “I talk about general stuff, anything that makes me laugh. Stuff about being from Brixton, observations, my background coming from Somalia – I just like to tell jokes.”

As per the opening paragraph and categories; WP:OPENPARA states: “In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident, or if notable mainly for past events, the country where the person was a citizen, national or permanent resident when the person became notable.”

Somalia is Abdi’s country of birth and his ethnicity is Somali, however Abdi is both a permanent resident of the UK and has become notable in the UK not Somalia. Therefore Somalian per se is misleading as the demonym when representing notable persons is their state of recognition. He self-identifies as being Somalian, growing up and being from Brixton, and a being a British citizen. He is a British subject in the same way that any other person originating from the UK is. Another example of how this has been applied would be Mo Farah, Somali-born British international track and field athlete. Tanbircdq (talk) 19:00, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

The line on his comedic style should mention his roots in Somalia first because much of his act is centered on his Somalian heritage (c.f. [5]). Middayexpress (talk) 16:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

WP:OPENPARA is very clear on this and states "previous nationalities or the country of birth should not be mentioned in the opening sentence". This is particularly relevant for people who moved with their families as children, since OPENPARA also states that the nationality that should be used in the lead sentence is the nationality held at the time the subject became notable. Except in exceptional cases, the intent of OPENPARA is that only a single nationality should be mentioned in the lead sentence. Yworo (talk) 22:01, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Prior to having read this thread I wasn't sure who this individual is. Having edited on subjects with parallel particulars I feel I might be able to help. As is stated by Yworo above this post, previous nationalities and place of birth are discouraged from featuring in the intro. Firstly, whether the subject has elected to become a British citizen is irrelevant. Britain is the country of artistic origin and he is permanently resident there, and having come as a child he would have had no choice in the matter - so there is no divorcing subject from British statehood. Next comes Somali status, now this does not necessarily have to be omitted from the opening sentences if we know the individual identifies as such. This would transform the Somali status from nationality to ethnicity. Of course, if there is proof of dual-nationality then this indeed should be listed farther down the article. So British comedian of Somali descent or origin will definitely suffice. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 22:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Abdi is Somali but also happy to be a naturalized British citizen (c.f. [6]); so that sounds acceptable. Middayexpress (talk) 16:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

As Somalian per se is inaccurate, I propose that the unnecessary categories Category:Somalian comedians and Category:Somalian actors are removed from the article. As well as the issues that have already been discussed, when Abdi became notable he was not a comedian or actor in Somalia. The category Category:Somalian emigrants to the United Kingdom already serves the purpose of him being born in Somalia, and the category Category:British people of Somali descent already serves the purpose of his Somali heritage.

These categories also appear to be unhelpful, self-serving categories, as he is the only entry for Somalian comedians and on Somalian actors he is included with Somali-born American model Iman. Tanbircdq (talk) 20:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Abdi has dual citizenship. It's established that he was born in Somalia and later became a naturalized British citizen. Article 8 of the Constitution of Somalia stipulates that "a person who is a Somali citizen cannot be deprived of Somali citizenship, even if they become a citizen of another country" (c.f. [7]). That would apply in this situation. Middayexpress (talk) 15:34, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I think you may have misunderstood my reason for objecting to these categories being included on the article. There is no dispute that Abdi has dual Somalian and British citizenship. As you have just stated, it is not a requirement for Somali citizenship to be revoked before new citizenship can be acquired. The issue of Somalian in place of British being misleading has already been resolved. The issue I was trying to raise was that the categories appear to be WP:SMALLCAT clutter, as the they do not have any realistic potential for growth considering that there are no entries of subjects from Somalia in either of them. However in the interests of inclusionism I have no objection for them to be included.

Regarding the issue of his nationality/citizenship: his origin and background is relevant to his notability in a similar way to other notable comedians such as Imran Yusuf, Shappi Khorsandi, Ahmed Ahmed etc.

Somali-born British stand-up comedian, actor and writer and British stand-up comedian, actor and writer of Somali descent are both factually correct, however the former is more appropriate and accurate as it specifically confirms that the subject was born in Somalia and then emigrated to the UK. As opposed to the latter, which could be used interchangeably with the first but merely states that he is British (this could be either by birth/citizenship) with Somali ancestry. The former incorporates both his country of birth and his ethnicity/ancestry as well as his nationality and citizenship. Tanbircdq (talk) 22:00, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Can I suggest we hold onto the Somalian categories, it enriches the article and would make it consistent with the norms of other similar subjects. There is no disclaimer on any Somali category to state that only persons based in Somalia itself be included and above that, many persons have links to all sorts of countries for extremely loose connections. Take me personally, I'm British-born to parents from former Yugoslavia, my descent will be how I identify, how my parents identified if different from each other or me and would you believe, I'd be accepted as being of American descent because my great-grandfather lived in the U.S. for many years early in the 20th century and became a citizen. Quite gratifying! But then white Americans are all descended from Europe somewhere, not just the British Isles. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 12:39, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I do agree that these categories are constructive and there is no harm in including them on the article as per WP:CATNAME Heritage. Tanbircdq (talk) 15:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Somali-born works fine. Middayexpress (talk) 15:52, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism

Since February 2013, this article has been subject to a repeat pattern of vandalism: the subject’s birth place changed from Somalia to Dublin, Ireland or Perth, Australia, his birth year changed from 1982 to 1987, his graduation year changed from 2007 to 2008, and the subject’s years active changed from 2006–present to 2008–present. The Personal life and See also sections are also being unnecessarily removed.

This was originally done by a SPA account of Draculoldk (talk · contribs), however after repeat warnings the vandalism started to be done by the IP account of 90.211.247.106 (talk · contribs) then after repeat warnings and a 24 hour block the vandalism now appears to have started to be done by 176.251.122.138 (talk · contribs). Tanbircdq (talk) 18:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Further repeat disruptive vandalism now being done by 2.223.207.126 (talk · contribs). Tanbircdq (talk) 17:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Please remove my page from wikipedia. Thank you. prince abdi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Princeabdi (talk • contribs) 23:15, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Page blanking

Please do not remove sections of text without explanation. Consensus amongst editors is required to make major changes to an article, and we do that by discussing issues here on the talk page. Wikipedia works through collaborative community editing, one person does not hold a veto. Wholesale text removal whilst ignoring messages may be taken as disruptive. People close to the subject of article are strongly discouraged from editing due to conflict of interest. Span (talk) 16:54, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Editors have repeatedly been asked to bring any issues of contention to this talk page, instead of wiping the article. As has been posted on various editors' talk pages, the subject of the article, may deal directly with the Wikipedia Foundation and request that inaccurate article material is altered or removed. See WP:OTRS. The material given in the article is referenced. Changes cannot be made to inaccurate details unless there is, somewhere, a process of discussion. Span (talk) 18:35, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

1980s?

How can he have emigrated to the UK in the 1980s aged 4 if he was born in 1989? Born in 89 and emigrated at age 4 makes it 1992 or early 93 that his family moved. 88.105.167.65 (talk) 00:43, 15 June 2023 (UTC)