Talk:Remuneration/Archives/2017

Why is wage listed under remuneration?

Why is wage included in the definition of remuneration? Lets not confuse people please! remuneration and wage are only synonyms. Check Websters please. --TaxCracker (talk) 15:02, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Lots of words have different meanings, depending on context. For example, one form of remuneration is "salary" -- but "salary" sometimes means something different from "wage". So, both "salary" and "wage" could be considered different kinds of "remuneration" in some contexts. Of course, in other contexts, "salary" might be considered just a subset of "wage."

In short, "remuneration" and "wage" are SOMETIMES used as synonyms -- but not always. Famspear (talk) 15:10, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

For a certainty, reliable evidence exist to show that wages has been defined to means remuneration. But, what is your reliable English word reference for the claim that wage and remuneration are anything other than synonyms? --TaxCracker (talk) 18:48, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't need "reliable evidence." I'm only responding to your question on this talk page.

One definition of "salary" is "fixed compensation paid regularly for services". Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, p. 1019, G.&C. Merriam Co. (8th ed. 1976).

By contrast, one definition of "wage" is "a payment usu. of money for labor or services usu. according to contract and on an hourly, daily, or piecework basis". Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, p. 1315, G.&C. Merriam Co. (8th ed. 1976).

By contrast, one definition of the verb to "remunerate" is "to pay an equivalent to [someone] for a service, loss, or expense". Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, pp. 878-879, G.&C. Merriam Co. (8th ed. 1976). In the same dictionary, "remuneration" is defined as "an act or fact of remunerating". Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, p. 879, G.&C. Merriam Co. (8th ed. 1976). In that particular sense, both "wage" and "salary" could be considered sub-categories of "remuneration." In any case where someone is using different definitions for "wage" and "salary" (for example, in the dictionary definitions I just quoted) -- the terms "remuneration" and "wage" therefore are not used as synonyms in that particular instance. So, sometimes Word A and Word B are used to mean the same thing, and other times Word A and Word B are NOT used to mean the same thing.

This is not rocket science. Famspear (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Famspear, Just because "wage" means payment and "remunerate" means payment, this does not mean they are on the same launch pad. There are a number of categories into which a payment may fall. (e.g. principal payment, interest payment, compulsory payment as in the payment of a ransom, etc.) The "mun" in remuneration is from the Latin word "munus" meaning "to present a gift"(see also munificent). All Remuneration falls under the category of "benefit payments". At my place of employment, the employees receive many different benefits. The company (benefactor) also has temps come in to work. The temps don't get any of the benefits that the employees get. Only their wage.

It is unlikely rocket science would exist without structured language and the properly intended use thereof. --TaxCracker (talk) 16:29, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Dear TaxCracker: Thank you for sharing that with us. Language and the "properly intended use thereof" are, in large part, what this discussion is about. And thank you for confirming one of the points noted above: the terms "wage" and "remuneration -- not being on the same "launch pad," as you put it -- are sometimes used to mean the same thing, and other times are not used to mean the same thing. Famspear (talk) 18:05, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Famspear, I am not quite certain we have a consensus here (based upon your response). Because we are discussing finance here, it is important to discuss correct meanings for the application. I am saying that in relation to financial matters, "wage" and "remuneration" are NOT in the same payment category, while "wages" and "remuneration" are.

For the remuneration wiki page to state that "wage" is a type of "remuneration" is to state an inaccuracy. For "wage", while being a payment type that is purposed to indemnify an expense, is certainly never represented as a gift. (e.g. Paid vacation time may be provided at the employee's wage rate, but it is most certainly payed out as wages [benefit] and not as a wage payment[for hours expended by an employee].)

I propose that the word "wage" on the remuneration wiki page be changed to "wages". --TaxCracker (talk) 23:13, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

No, you're trying to create a false distinction between "wage" and "wages." In financial matters, the word "wages" is the plural form of the word "wage," and nothing more. A "wage" is a type of remuneration. And "wages" are a type of remuneration. Again, this is not rocket science. Famspear (talk) 02:46, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Well then Famspear, I certainly am glad that this is not an official dictionary. I certainly would not advise anyone to link to this dictionary reference as a source for accurate information on remuneration. And, you have it wrong. I do not have to try to create a distinction that already exist. Websters clearly explains that "wages" is "singular in signification". "Wages" signifies "A compensation given to a hired person for services; price paid for labor; recompense; hire." This is clearly not the same thing as the meaning of "wage".

On another point, Why is "Wages" not listed here? --TaxCracker (talk) 13:06, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Dear TaxCracker: Yes, "wages" and "wage" clearly have the same meaning in ordinary every day parlance. Again, the word "wage" is the singular form of "wages," and the word "wages" is the plural form of "wage." Adding an "s" to "wage" does not magically change the meaning in the way you've been describing.

You're agonizing over this, to no benefit. You're reading dictionary definitions and you're coming up with your own idiosyncratic theories. That's not your job as a Wikipedia editor. Your job is not to take Statement A from Source A and Statement B from Source B and come up with Conclusion C. That would be prohibited Original Research (as that term is used here in Wikipedia). Instead, look for reliable previously published third party sources, and report on what THEY say. Famspear (talk) 18:11, 16 May 2017 (UTC)