Talk:Solemnity

Suggestions

Gentlemen, what about St. Patrick and the dedication of his cathedral? In addition, according to the saints' calendar upon Wikipedia, the Accession is a memorial instead of a solemnity.

The solemnities of St. Patrick and his cathedral's dedication were apparently only regional. It would benefical to this article if dates of when the feast-days became solemnities for entire Church were mentioned. The Feast of Immaculate Conception was evelated to that status in 1708.--Anglius 20:07, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is Corpus Christi dated on "Sunday after Holy Trinity"? Its article states "It occurs on the first Thursday following Trinity Sunday", which is the date I know as the official date. Some countries observe it on the next sunday. 83.236.10.146 19:48, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Transferring

I was told by an Eastern Catholic archpriest that only the Roman Church moves solomnities. Can anyone provide more detail about the rule concerning the moving of solmnities during Holy Week? FlyingOtter (talk) 06:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC) 06:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe you are correct about Eastern Catholic churches combining solemnities with the days in Holy Week and even Easter. But you will have to check with an Eastern Catholic about that.

In the Roman Catholic church, if the Annunciation (normally March 25) falls during Holy Week or Easter Week, it is transferred to the next available day, which is the 2nd Monday after Easter. For example, in 2013, the Annunciation was Monday, April 8, 2013. Remember, every day during the Easter Octave is a solemnity with, under the rubrics, outrank all other solemnities, including the Annunciation.

Much less common is for St. Joseph's Day (normally March 19) to fall during Holy Week. In practice, when that happens (under the current calendar, so far, only in 1978, 1989, and 2008) it is moved to the Saturday before Palm Sunday. For example, in 2008, it was Saturday, March 15, 2008. I don't think that is in the rubrics, but rather a special rule created for those rare years (perhaps something overlooked when the rubrics were written).

What I don't understand, however, is how does the Holy Day of Obligation work in places where St. Joseph's Day is a Holy Day of Obligation (it is not a Holy Day of Obligation where I live, in the US). I know that when a solemnity is transferred, the Holy Day of Obligation does no transfer, so I doubt that Saturday, Mar. 15, 2008 was a Holy Day of Obligation in such places? Or was it? Did Holy Wednesday become a Holy day of Obligation, since it fell on Mar. 19, 2008? Possible, but I doubt it. Or was the Holy Day of Obligation waived that year? Possible, but probably would have required a special rule. Mitsguy2001 (talk) 06:08, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

The place for such information is the article Holy day of obligation. See the lead of that article. Esoglou (talk) 10:59, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Etymology

All reputable sources I have checked (Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology and Oxford Latin Dictionary, inter alia) give the "sol-" element as deriving from a (probably Oscan) word "sollus" (whole, entire), not the unrelated "solet" as currently shown; and the derivation of the "-emn-" element from annus is also widely regarded as speculative. Vilĉjo 17:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Precedence/Impedance

The dates for the Solemnities of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ (Corpus Christi) (a Thursday, transferred to a Sunday in some areas) and of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus (always a Friday) depend on the date for the Solemnity of the Resurrection of the Lord (Easter Sunday), a "movable feast." Unfortunately, they can occur as late (or later) than the Solemnities of the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist (ordinarily 24 June) and of Saints Peter and Paul, Apostles (ordinarily 29 June). So if two solemnities occur on one day, which is celebrated on that day, and which is transferred?

As best I can tell, this situation (with Corpus Christi in the United States and Saint John the Baptist on Sunday 24 June) last occurred in 1984 and will recur in 2057, both following Eastern on 22 April; this setup also leads to both the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and Saints Peter and Paul on Friday 29 June.

Another scenario (next to occur in 2022) places both John the Baptist and Sacred Heart both on Friday 24 June.

The Church cannot celebrate both solemnities on one day, so how has the Church handled these possibilities in the past, and what rules govern them in the future? The Church presumably transfers one solemnity to an adjacent (most likely succeeding) day, but which is it?

-72.198.24.151 (talk) 02:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

A solemnity of the Lord (such as Corpus Christi, or Sacred Heart) takes precidence over a solemnity of Mary or of a saint (such as St. John the Baptist, or St. Peter and Paul). The chart on the page says this for the 2 solemnities in question:

St. John the Baptist: Transferred to 25 June if a solemnity of the Lord (Corpus Christi or the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus) falls on 24 June.

Note: No longer! It is now 2022 and the Feast of John the Baptist has been transferred to 23 June. There are probably a couple of good reasons for the less usual move earlier rather than later: (1) The eve of St, John's Day has always been strongly associated with it anyway; and (2) if moved to 25 June, it would displace the celebration of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (which generally takes place the day after the Feast of the Sacred Heart but which is not a solemnity), which would then also need to be transferred (or not celebrated). HighCrossRuff (talk) 07:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Saints Peter and Paul: Transferred to 30 June if a solemnity of the Lord (Most Sacred Heart of Jesus) falls on 29 June. Uncertain whether the obligatory status is then transferred to the Solemnity of the Most Sacred Heart.

I am not so sure that is entirely correct. The rubrics say that if a solemnity is transfered, it is transfered to the next day which is not an Obligatory Memorial or higher. If the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart falls on either June 24 or 29, I don't think it would be transfered to the next day (June 25 or 30), because the Saturday after the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart is always the Obligatory Memorial of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, unless it is impeded by a higher ranking feast (which neither June 25 nor 30 is). the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart would not be transferred to the following day (June 26 or July 1) either, since that is a Sunday. So I am thinking that if the Solemnity of the Sacred Heart falls on either June 24 or 29, it would be transferred to the following Monday (June 27 or July 2).

Does anyone here remember if that was the case in 1984? I was too young to remember. Or, can anyone obtain an accurate 1984 Catholic calendar?

The one thing that confuses me though, is that I saw a copy of Pope John Paul's homily for the Solemnity of St. Peter and Paul, and it was dated June 29, 1984. Does that solemnity maybe take precedence over a Solemnity of the Lord at the Vatican, if not elsewhere? Or is my above theory wrong, and maybe he gave that homily at a Vigl Mass (implying that the solemnity was transferred to June 30, even though the rubrics say it should not have been)? Or was maybe the wrong date given?

As for whether or not the obligation is transferred to the Solemnity of Most Sacred Heart, I honestly don't know. Under the letter of the law, it probably is. Though I wonder if perhaps they either waived the obligation, or transferred it to the day that the Solemnity of St. Peter and Paul was actually observed (whether June 30 or July 2). Again, does anyone remember 1984?

A similar situation happened in 2008 with the Solemnity of St. Joseph, which was impeded by Holy Wednesday. Due to a special announcement, the solemnity was moved back to Saturday, Mar. 15, 2008 (in Ireland, it was transferred to Friday, Mar. 14, 2008). Under the letter of the law, it should have been transferred to Tuesday, April 1, 2008, but they specifically wrote an exception for that year (they did the same in 1978, and probably also 1989). In places where the Solemtnity of St. Joseph is a holy day of obligation, was the obligation transferred to Holy Wednesday (Wed, Mar. 19, 2008), or was it transferred to Mar. 15, or was it waived completely? Again, under the letter of the law, it would have been on Holy Wednesday, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was transferred or waived. Again, does anyone remember?

68.193.18.102 (talk) 18:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC) 68.193.18.102 (talk) 18:41, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Saint Patrick as a solemnity

Saint Patrick's Day (17 March) is celebrated as a solemnity in Australia too. 61.14.99.142 (talk) 07:26, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Does anybody have a 1973 or 1984 calendar?

In 1973 and 1984, there were 2 unusual occurrences which won't happen again until 2057. Does anybody have a calendar from either year? The occurrences are:

1. Corpus Christi fell on Thursday, June 21, which means that in the US, it would normally be transferred to Sunday, June 24. But that's the date of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist. Both are solemnities. Was Corpus Christi not transferred to Sunday in those years? Or, if it was transferred, then was St. John the Baptist transferred to Saturday, June 23 or to Monday, June 25? Or some other day?

2. The Sacred Heart of Jesus fell on Friday, June 29, the usual date of St. Peter and Paul. Both are solemnities. Was one of the solemnities transferred to Thursday, June 28 or Saturday, June 30? What about in places where St. Peter and Paul is a holy day of obligation? I read somewhere that St. Peter and Paul was transferred to Sunday, July 1, but I have no idea if that's accurate or not. Mitsguy2001 (talk) 16:52, 12 April 2022 (UTC)