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Requested move 10 September 2023

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The consensus below is that this move is not supported by common name. (closed by non-admin page mover) SilverLocust 💬 19:15, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Storrs, Connecticut → Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut – According to the USPS ZIP Code Lookup tool, the recommended city names for 06268 and 06269 are "Storrs-Mansfield, CT" - "Storrs" is an accepted shorthand substitution, but should not represent the community on its own. Jonathanhusky (talk) 18:49, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Storrs-Mansfield Discussion

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In recent history, an editor or group of editors, editing on shared IP addresses registered to the University of Connecticut (UConn), started a campaign to edit Wikipedia references to this community from "Storrs, Connecticut" to "Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut".

The user(s) have provided a substantial number of citations to support the change. This is not considered disruptive on its own. The sources they've cited are broken down as follows:

Federal

  • "ZIP Code Lookup Tool - 06268" (Often erroneously listed as "Storrs", the correct name of this community is "Storrs-Mansfield".). United States Postal Service. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: United States Postal Service. p. ZIP Codes 06268 and 06269. YOU ENTERED: 06268 - RECOMMENDED CITY NAME: STORRS MANSFIELD CT
  • "ZIP Code Lookup Tool - 06269". United States Postal Service. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: United States Postal Service. p. ZIP Code 06269. YOU ENTERED: 06269 - RECOMMENDED CITY NAME: STORRS MANSFIELD CT
  • "Storrs-Mansfield Post Office". United States Postal Service. United States Postal Service. 9 CHARLES SMITH WAY STORRS MANSFIELD, CT 06268-9998
  • "7 Day Forecast for Storrs-Mansfield, CT". National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. National Weather Service. Extended Forecast for Storrs Mansfield CT
  • "Daily Summaries Location Details: Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268". Climate Data Online - National Climatic Data Center (NCDC). National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Location Details - Name: Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268

Town of Mansfield

  • "Town Manager". Town of Mansfield Staff Directory. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Physical Address: 4 S Eagleville Road, Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Town Clerk". Town of Mansfield Staff Directory. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Physical Address: 4 S Eagleville Road, Audrey P. Beck Building, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Can I reach the Town Council through the Town Manager's Office?". Town of Mansfield FAQs. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Yes. Requests to the Town Council can be addressed to: Town Council, 4 South Eagleville Rd, Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268.
  • "Mansfield Fire Stations". Town of Mansfield Fire Department. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Station 107: 879 Stafford Road (Route 32), Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268 - Station 207: 1722 Storrs Road (Route 195), Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268 - Station 307: 999 Storrs Road, Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Senior Center". Town of Mansfield Senior Center. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Physical Address: 303 Maple Road, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Public Works". Town of Mansfield Public Works. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Physical Address: 4 S Eagleville Road, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268 - Town Garage: 230 Clover Mill Road, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Mansfield Downtown Partnership". Town of Mansfield Downtown Partnership. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Physical Address: 23 Royce Circle, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268 - Mailing Address: PO Box 513, Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Contact Us". Town of Mansfield Parks and Recreation. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Located in the Mansfield Community Center: 10 S Eagleville Road, Storrs Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Hours and Location". Town of Mansfield Public Library. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Mansfield, Connecticut. Mansfield Library Express: 23 Royce Circle, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268 - Maple Road Library: 303 Maple Road, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268
  • "Contact Us - Main Campus". Edwin O. Smith High School. Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut: Regional School District 19. Edwin O. Smith High School: 1235 Storrs Road, Storrs-Mansfield, CT 06268

Utilities

Local Businesses

Of course, myself or other editors could add to this extensive list, but these examples were provided by the user who initiated the discussion. For example, numerous Google Scholar entries by researchers at UConn reference the institution being in Storrs-Mansfield, and other local businesses list their addresses and services areas as being in Storrs-Mansfield.

The other argument the user presents is that "Storrs", as a census-designated placename, does not represent the whole of the community and that the use of "Storrs-Mansfield" in official and legal contexts allows for the correction. The geography of census-designated places, their names, and other factors are known and accepted to have no legal status or correlation with locally understood boundaries and terminology. An interactive map illustrating the boundary for the census-designated place labeled "Storrs" is easily accessible, and notably does not include some campus and community features like the UConn Forest and numerous local businesses.

In an edit summary, the IP user cites a Census Bureau publication, "Understanding Geographic Relationships: Counties, Places, Tracts and More" which suggests that ZIP Code Tabulation Areas exist higher up on the Census data hierarchy than census-designated places do.

It is also recognized that numerous double placenames exist in the United States, and "Storrs-Mansfield" would qualify as both "Storrs" and "Mansfield" have historically been used interchangeably to refer to the entirety of what is now the Town of Mansfield, in addition to the historical use of the dual name "Storrs-Mansfield". The IP user brings up Winston-Salem, North Carolina as an example, whos article itself includes the quote:

Many natives of the city and North Carolina refer to the city as "Winston" in informal speech.

Other editors have cited the policy WP:COMMONNAME, but the policies WP:NCPLACE and MOS:ALTNAME are perhaps more appropriate, since both "Storrs" and "Storrs-Mansfield" are in common public usage. Therefore, simply citing COMMONNAME whilst not respecting the usage of the alternative name in question is not productive nor actually a resolution.

Therefore, I suggest a compromissorial lead section:

Storrs-Mansfield (/stɔːrzˈmænsfild/ storz-MANS-feeld) is an unincorporated village and census-designated place (CDP) in the town of Mansfield in eastern Tolland County, Connecticut, United States. The community is part of the Capitol Planning Region.

Sometimes referred to as Storrs, the village is dominated economically and demographically by the main campus of the University of Connecticut and the associated Connecticut Repertory Theatre.

With other references in articles replaced with Storrs-Mansfield.

This topic is not meant to necessarily usurp the conclusion of the requested move from September 2023, nor to outright support all of the IP user's claims or conduct, but, to highlight why that original consensus may be flawed: Usage of Google Maps comparison (arbitrary census-designated place boundary vs. actual usage), Refusal to consider suggested references (Editor said "I don't care what the 'USPS ZIP Code Lookup tool' says"), and claim that "Storrs" is a locale, which it cannot be as a populated place. Importantly, "Storrs-Mansfield" is not a one-off name, as seen here, so it is not a simple case of destructive editing. The question was also asked in another arm of the discussion "When does consensus expire?" and "When consensus is wrong, how can we improve it?"

I would like to welcome a respectful and polite discussion on the matter that does not include simple denials of the claim or refusal to draw an educated conclusion due to the poor editing choices of one user. Jonathanhusky (talk) 04:36, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following thoughts come to mind here...
  • In full street addresses, Storrs-Mansfield is used more often. (my guess is that a search that included included 06268 or 06269 in the text *might* tilt toward Storrs-Mansfield
  • UConn uses Storrs much more often to refer to its campus, this seems to affect other organizations (like ESPN and other sports news) that refer to that location as Storrs.
  • Google Compare is *massively* tilted to Storrs over Storrs-Manfield. See https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=US&q=storrs%20connecticut,storrs-manfield%20connecticut&hl=en
  • The difference between Storrs and Storrs-Manfield seems to most closely resemble in Common Name, the North Korea vs. Democratic People's Republic of Korea example, in each case there is a proper name that may be more used by the people locally, but in the global balance, there is another more commonly used name.Naraht (talk) 16:01, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the 's' in Mansfield was omitted unintentionally there.. see the Google Trends comparison between "Storrs Mansfield CT" and "Storrs Mansfield Connecticut", showing marginally more activity with the CT state abbreviation. The "Storrs Mansfield CT" and "Storrs Connecticut" comparison is quite similar.
Many UConn materials, like this campus map, refer to the "main campus at Storrs" implying "Storrs Agricultural College" - not unlike saying "UConn's regional campus at Avery Point". How do we distinguish between usage of "Storrs" in reference to the community vs used as a shorthand name for the college itself? Jonathanhusky (talk) 00:31, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Additional Comment, in regards to NCPLACE and ALTNAME, IMO, not unreasonable to have it mentioned as Storrs-Mansfield at some point in the lead. For Infoboxes that contain street addresses, it may be preferred. However, it just doesn't seem right in a table of the 19XX season of the University of Massachusetts Soccer team that the away game at UConn was played in Storrs-Mansfield.
(And add in shock that Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut doesn't exist as a redirect, given that Storrs Mansfield, Connecticut does)Naraht (talk) 22:47, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the unhyphenated redirect has existed on Wikipedia independently since 2005. It appears to be standard practice to hyphenate double placenames, unless another article like "and" is added. Jonathanhusky (talk) 00:34, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(Update) Storrs, Mansfield, Connecticut as a redirect has existed since 2017. "Storrs, Mansfield" would be accurate - describing the census designated place Storrs within the town of Mansfield. The hyphenated and blank-space versions still ring more common. Jonathanhusky (talk) 21:21, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, missed the change to google trends, but it still doesn't show anything with Storrs-Mansfield being used more that Storrs. I don't agree with the implication, I'd be very surprised if "Storrs Agricultural College" was used much any more, or even that most people using Storrs would think that. As for the Hyphenated Shortcut, I'm fine with creating it and labelling it alternate. (Similar to Londonderry). Naraht (talk) 14:24, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I second the alternate name idea, it’s suitable for noting both names while still using WP:COMMONNAME with Storrs. R0paire-wiki (talk) 14:52, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Created.
More so the grammar of it. No one says "The Empire State Building at New York" or "at Manhattan" - whilst "Storrs" was definitely used as a shorthand name for "Storrs Agricultural College". By the time the college was open, the Town of Mansfield had been established, so that's where everybody understood it to be. Jonathanhusky (talk) 18:30, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel that other schools are a better comparison. All of the SUNY schools are State University of New York at XXX, be it Buffalo, Albany or Oswego.Naraht (talk) 20:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the discussion hangs on an unanswered question of Wikipedia policy: When a notable institution, event, or place has an article, do we refer to the town in which it is located, or the census-designated place? If we take a look at the US Census Bureau's list of census-designated places in Connecticut, we see that Quinnipiac University, Fairfield University, and Sacred Heart University all have their own census-designated places. These three happen to be private universities - but it's an oxymoron to refer to these schools as being in places with those exact names.

The official list also includes some entries which do not appear on Wikipedia's list of notable census-designated places in Connecticut, although have short article pages. Witches Woods and Lake Bungee (both in Woodstock), Route 7 Gateway (Ridgefield), Taylor Corners (New Fairfield), and Chimney Point (New Milford) are examples - the articles basically exist "just because". I think here, it's more of a case of a cultural exception to the norm.. census names aren't common in normal use. Even this page, originally denoted as being for the Storrs census-designated place, has little to offer that isn't covered in the main articles for Mansfield or UConn - yes, it is notable, but should it have its own article, or exist as its own major section of the article for Mansfield?

The Storrs census-designated place boundary does not include the UConn "Depot Campus" or student-run Spring Valley Farm, notable off-campus locations like The Adventure Park, Tony's Garage and other "Four Corners" businesses, the Spring Hill Inn, and others - but they all exist within the Storrs-Mansfield ZIP code boundary. UConn operates nearby off-campus offices that are outside of the Storrs census-designated place boundary - they do the right thing by not saying they are in "Storrs".

This begs the question: Where does incorrect informal use of "Storrs" exist and how does this affect the sources and data we use on Wikipedia? Google incorrectly uses Storrs for locations outside of the census-designated place boundary, as an example. Jonathanhusky (talk) 21:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC discussion on Storrs-Mansfield references

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Comments would be appreciated to achieve an accurate and supportable consensus regarding references to Storrs-Mansfield, Connecticut - an unincorporated village which is sometimes referred to as Storrs. The community is notably home to the main campus of the University of Connecticut, and, naturally reflects cultural differences both as a New England fixture but also due to some misplaced or incorrect historical usage.

The request would be to alter the lead section of the article to read as follows:

Storrs-Mansfield (/stɔːrzˈmænsfild/ storz-MANS-feeld) is an unincorporated village and census-designated place (CDP) in the town of Mansfield in eastern Tolland County, Connecticut, United States. The community is part of the Capitol Planning Region.

Sometimes referred to as Storrs, the village is dominated economically and demographically by the main campus of the University of Connecticut and the associated Connecticut Repertory Theatre.

Several points of discussion, including the preference and differences between census-designated place boundaries and postal town boundaries are included on the article talk page. It is not appropriate to immediately dismiss the need for a new consensus, due to the substantial official and community usage of both names. Thank you, Jonathanhusky (talk) 19:58, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

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  • Strongly opposed to Storrs-Mansfield – If there were any support for it at all in books, I would quote the ratio, but there is none at all (that is to say, there might be some, but it is too low to register in Google ngrams), so the ratio is effectively infinity to one. This is a slam dunk no. Mathglot (talk) 22:59, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Just for fun, I did a search at Google scholar, and the first result that I saw that had the string Mansfield was result #43 (meaning, that results #1–42 did not). Your results may be different depending on your location, search history, and other factors. Mathglot (talk) 23:05, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Using the Google Ngrams search for "Storrs Mansfield CT" and "Storrs Mansfield" does show some significant graphing, as well as the Google Scholar link in your reply shows, for me, a Storrs-Mansfield reference as result number three (a Penn State University study document featuring an EO Smith High School cowriter) - the first two are links to early UConn commencement programs, citing "CM STORRS", meaning Charles Storrs of founders Charles and Augustus Storrs.
    Admittedly, I am located on the main UConn campus now, which as you mentioned may contribute to that search display. Jonathanhusky (talk) 23:17, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposed to Storrs-Mansfield – based on the previous discussions both on talk and at ANI, and per WP:COMMONNAME. I could support adding Storrs-Mansfield as an alternative name, but I oppose renaming the article and primary name to it per trends and common name. R0paire-wiki (talk) 00:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I certainly wouldn't oppose mentioning it in the lead. Also, having a redirect to the title from Storrs-Mansfield seems fine, if only because redirects are cheap. But honestly, that redirect isn't going to help anybody get to the right article, as you have to type "Storrs" before you can type "Storrs-Manfield" into the search box, and by the time you type the first part, search suggestions already pops up the correct article. Mathglot (talk) 03:09, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For the record, this RFC would be for editing the lead and important or primary linked references, like under the list of villages in the town of Mansfield.
    I've edited the request to make that more clear, as a complete page name change wasn't the intention at this time. However, a change simply in the interest of accuracy would not be unopposed. Jonathanhusky (talk) 04:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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