Talk:Taa language
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Sound samples?[edit]
Are there any sound samples of this language being spoken? It would greatly clarify the article, I think, to be able to hear all these sounds. grendel|khan 17:08, 2005 Mar 22 (UTC)
I agree Mark O'Sullivan 13:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
- i couldnT find sound samples from !Xóõ, but if you like to hear words and phrases which include click-sounds, go to this website:(http://ling.cornell.edu/khoisan/index.html) it'S is a project by the university of cornell. these are samples from ǂHoan and Sasi, which also belongs to the Khoesan family. --moorooduc 06:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- 哈哈哈你好嗎 我是台灣人 1.172.11.142 (talk) 06:41, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
IPA of name[edit]
Can someone add a close IPA description of how to pronounce !Xóõ? Guaka 13:27, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
- The German article gives [ǃxõːH], added by Thomas Goldammer. I have not read either article, but I don't know of any superscript H in IPA. Perhaps Thomas meant to write [ǃxõːʜ]? Wikipeditor 09:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- The H would seem to represent high tone. --Ptcamn 09:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- As ought not be too surprising for a language with only 4000 people, I think its name is in IPA. I know that's not a very comforting answer, but it might be less intimidating like this:
- The H would seem to represent high tone. --Ptcamn 09:16, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Begin with your simple post-alveolar click and as your velum drops hold it there for a voicless fricative (like German) and the tip of your tongue should go into the /o/ position (with rounded lips of course), raise the tone, and make a long /o/ sound, with the latter end being nasalized (which kind of makes it diphthong, but with the same vowel quality). I think the article says you can make a velar nasal or a palatal nasal as the second /o/, rather than a nasal vowel. JesseRafe 05:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I would also like to see an IPA transcription of !Xóõ. All indications seem to be that it's [k!xóõ] or [k!xóŋ]. Should we wait longer to see if anyone is confident enough about this? Commander Nemet 01:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- Great, now its 2013 and the article claims that ǃXóõ is pronounced /ˈkoʊ/. I think it is very unlikely that this is accurate. --Mudd1 (talk) 13:53, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
New table[edit]
I've made an improvement to the current tables, and they need to be double-checked before incoporated into the article. --Puzzlet Chung 03:38, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Non-click consonants
bilab. | dental | post. dent. | velar | uvular | ||
stop | p | t | ts | k | q | |
voiced | b | d | dz | g | G | |
asp. | ph | th | tsh | kh | qh | |
asp. voiced | bh | dh | dzh | |||
uv. fric. | tx | tsx | ||||
voiced | dtx | dtsx | ||||
ejective | ts' | kx' | q' | |||
voiced | dts' | gkx' | ||||
eje. uv. | t'x' | ts'x' | ||||
prevo. | dt'x' | dts'x' | ||||
fricative | s | x | ||||
nasal | m | n | ||||
glot. | m' | n' |
Click consonants
bilab. | dental | post. dent. | palatal | lateral | ||
velar | k@ | k| | k! | k= | k|| | |
voiced | g@ | g| | g! | g= | g|| | |
nasal | n@ | n| | n! | n= | n|| | |
preglot. | 'n@ | 'n| | 'n! | 'n= | 'n|| | |
unv. | N@ | N| | N! | N= | N|| | |
uvu. | q@ | q| | q! | q= | q|| | |
voiced | G@ | G| | G! | G= | G|| | |
asp. | q@h | q|h | q!h | q=h | q||h | |
uvu. fric. | k@x | k|x | k!x | k=x | k||x | |
eje. uvu. | q@' | q|' | q!' | q=' | q||' | |
affr. | k@x' | k|x' | k!x' | k=x' | k||x' | |
asp. vel. | k@h | k|h | k!h | k=h | k||h | |
glot. | k@' | k|' | k!' | k=' | k||' | |
voiced | uvu. fric. | gk@x | gk|x | gk!x | gk=x | gk||x |
asp. | gh@ | g|h | g!h | g=h | g||h | |
uvu. eje. | gk@x' | gk|x' | gk!x' | gk=x' | gk||x' |
- Looks good from the top of my head (but I don't have a !Xóõ phonology available right now. What are your sources? — mark ✎ 07:13, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- The current article. --Puzzlet Chung 11:22, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- Ah, I was under the impression that you meant 'improvement' in the sense of 'a more correct/complete phoneme inventory'. They look better this way. I'm not that happy with the non-IPA transcription of the sounds though (I know it was that way before). — mark ✎ 08:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- In the current tables, shouldn't the second to last column (corresponding alveolar clicks) be "corresponding uvular clicks"? Linka 15:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
- Ah, I was under the impression that you meant 'improvement' in the sense of 'a more correct/complete phoneme inventory'. They look better this way. I'm not that happy with the non-IPA transcription of the sounds though (I know it was that way before). — mark ✎ 08:21, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
- The current article. --Puzzlet Chung 11:22, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
- No, they are exemplified by alveolar releases. If q|, G| etc. were used as the examples instead, they would be the 'corresponding dental clicks'. Maybe I can reword for clarity. 66.27.205.12 22:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
info[edit]
A little info is needed on the people that speak this language.
Gringo300 2 July 2005 05:30 (UTC)
Ambiguous sentence[edit]
It is prepositional, and genitives, adjectives, relative clauses and even numbers come after the nouns to which they apply.
At first I thought this was talking about "even numbers" -- meaning non-odd numbers. I later realized that's probably not what's meant. I know it's not a big deal and most people (at least native English speakers) won't have a problem with it, but still I'd suggest someone who's sure about this rephrase that in an unambiguous way.--Cotoco 21:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
- I fixed the grammar section to be a bit less ambiguous, and moved the blurb on Anthony Traill down to be combined with the "Other" section.--Hotchy 08:18, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Bad Link?[edit]
Is anyone able to access the phonology link at the bottom of the page? I don't know if it's just me, if it may be temporarily unavailable, or if the page has been completely deleted. Perhaps it just needs an update?--Hotchy 04:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
- Doesn't work for me, too. — mark ✎ 08:23, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
- That whole site hasn't been working for a number of months now, unfortunately. --Whimemsz 03:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
- [1] – Wikipeditor 09:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- That whole site hasn't been working for a number of months now, unfortunately. --Whimemsz 03:25, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Audio sample[edit]
Just completely randomly, would it be rather nifty to have audio samples of some of these more unusual phoenetics, so that folks uninitiated in the more advanced material can get a hang of things? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.68.87.209 (talk • contribs)
Ladefoged's analysis[edit]
What is the source for Peter Ladefoged's analysis of the clicks? thefamouseccles|Thefamouseccles 01:09, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- If I remember correctly, it's in SOWL (Sounds of the World's Languages). kwami 02:24, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Homophones[edit]
Given the huge phonemic inventory, I was wondering if someone could wirte on the article if there are any/many homophones in ǃXóõ, since presumably it would be easy to avoid them. I mean words like "bird" and "wardrobe" being the same, not the extended semantic web of "head", BTW.--Estrellador* 18:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
- It's difficult to find even minimal pairs in Khoisan languages. However, my impression (it's only that) is that homophones aren't all that uncommon. I don't know why; perhaps they're cognate but the connection's been lost, perhaps (and I'm only guessing) once a form exists, it's easier to apply to new words. kwami (talk) 03:23, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Ingressive clicks — a tautology?[edit]
What's with those "Ingressive voiceless nasal with delayed aspiration (↓ŋ̊ʰ)" anyway? Aren't all clicks supposed to be ingressive by definition anyway? And the only language with egressive clicks is Damin, as far as I know. — N-true (talk) 03:11, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
- Nasal clicks have two simultaneous airstreams. The nasal airstream is usually pulmonic egressive, but in this one language it's been shown to be ingressive. Ladefoged covers it in SOWL. I wonder if maybe similar sounds in other KS languages simply haven't been recognized. kwami (talk) 03:26, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Unreferenced tags! oh noes[edit]
I added unreferenced tags because:
- There are only two references, and they're from the same person. I guess this might be unavoidable, because this looks like a little-researched topic! however if anyone can find out more, or even put in page references... might be useful :)
- There are no "little numbers" in the text sending people to the references. To be honest, when I found this page I did go WHAT? is this real or true?! I'm sure other people could do the same!
However, I'd say this is a really interesting article. And if it helps my linguistics...
Trouts! (talk) 17:53, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
Is Ta'a really pronounced [kǃxóŋ] ?[edit]
The article now includes this sentence:
That is, the name Taʼa may be dialectically [kǃxóŋ], and this in turn may be phonemically /kǃxóɲ/, since [ɲ] does not occur word-finally. However, this cannot explain the short nasal vowels, so Taʼa has at least 31 vowels.
Is this correct, or is this just a leftover from when the article was entitled !Xóõ? Soap Talk/Contributions 16:33, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
IPA vs. non-IPA[edit]
??! Could anyone please explain to me why the consonant tables of East !Xoon are in IPA and the consonant tables of West !Xoon are in a "practical orthography" (which, for the most part, is fairly similar)? --JorisvS (talk) 10:25, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
- Yep. That's what my source had. I'm not sure how I would convert the orthography to IPA. kwami (talk) 10:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
References for West Koon[edit]
Kwami, it seems that you added the phonology for West Koon, but there isn't a reference for it. I'm trying to locate a published (or at least available) source for the DoBeS analysis, but with no luck. --Taivo (talk) 19:55, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Question about the choice for the 2nd example sentence in the "Phrases" section[edit]
I would like to ask if there is a particular reason for the choice of the phrase. If that is not the case it might be considered quite inappropriate for the article. Shiniri (talk) 22:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiniri (talk • contribs) 20:35, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
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